Does Ingredients REALLY matter?

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6pak
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Does Ingredients REALLY matter?

Postby 6pak » Fri Sep 21, 2007 2:45 pm

In my quest to find shady a food to deal with his issues (bladder stones) I came across this site that is put out by veterinarian nutritionist. What do you guys think?

http://www.petdiets.com/default.asp?Men ... ingred.asp

Home page:
http://www.petdiets.com/default.asp?Men ... =/main.asp

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maximusflys
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Postby maximusflys » Fri Sep 21, 2007 3:59 pm

Ask yourself, Do ingredients make a difference for humans?

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6pak
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Postby 6pak » Fri Sep 21, 2007 8:45 pm

I don't know what to believe now? :huh?: :dunno:
Click on the Dog Nutrition and read the questions
http://www.petdiets.com/default.asp?Men ... efault.asp

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EmmasMom
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Postby EmmasMom » Fri Sep 21, 2007 8:56 pm

YES! They do!

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6pak
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Postby 6pak » Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:13 pm

EmmasMom wrote:YES! They do!


Not according to the veterinarian nutritionist on the site who has no stake in the dog food industry.

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Misskiwi67
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Postby Misskiwi67 » Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:20 pm

6pak wrote:
EmmasMom wrote:YES! They do!


Not according to the veterinarian nutritionist on the site who has no stake in the dog food industry.


Does it matter if your dog food contains blueberries?? Probably not. Would I feed my food allergic dog a hydrolysate diet? Not until I've managed to use up EVERY LAST alternative food and there's nothing left on earth he isn't allergic to.

Yes, quality ingredients make a difference. Does it matter if the food contains a bit of grain... not unless your dog has a sensitivity to it. Does it matter if the grain is in whole form and of good freshness and quality. You bet it does!

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6pak
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Postby 6pak » Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:29 pm

Misskiwi67 wrote:
6pak wrote:
EmmasMom wrote:YES! They do!


Not according to the veterinarian nutritionist on the site who has no stake in the dog food industry.


Does it matter if your dog food contains blueberries?? Probably not. Would I feed my food allergic dog a hydrolysate diet? Not until I've managed to use up EVERY LAST alternative food and there's nothing left on earth he isn't allergic to.

Yes, quality ingredients make a difference. Does it matter if the food contains a bit of grain... not unless your dog has a sensitivity to it. Does it matter if the grain is in whole form and of good freshness and quality. You bet it does!


A quote from the site:
The final nutrient profile of a pet food is most important factor in meeting your pet’s daily nutritional needs. If the food meets your pet’s nutrient profile, it does not matter whether the sources of those nutrients are beef, chicken or soybean. The liver does not care whether it is receiving the necessary essential amino acids for protein synthesis from chicken by product meal, tofu, or a protein hydroslate.

Food for thought(excuse the pun)

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Savage Destiny
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Postby Savage Destiny » Fri Sep 21, 2007 11:33 pm

Well considering that corn gives absolutely NOTHING to a dog nutritionally, is an allergen to most dogs, and is only present in dog food as a filler... I have to say anyone who thinks corn completely fine in pet food shouldn't be calling themselves a pet nutritionist.

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Postby Gatorpit » Sat Sep 22, 2007 7:38 am

Not to mention their is a big difference in digestibility between whole corn, and corn gluten. Actually, in all whole grain and glutens.

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Postby Misskiwi67 » Sat Sep 22, 2007 7:41 am

Savage Destiny wrote:Well considering that corn gives absolutely NOTHING to a dog nutritionally, is an allergen to most dogs, and is only present in dog food as a filler... I have to say anyone who thinks corn completely fine in pet food shouldn't be calling themselves a pet nutritionist.


Except that everything you just posted is an urban myth. Corn is highly digestable when ground into a fine powder, I can't imagine anyone would feed their dog 60% filler and still have a healthy animal, but that is what the majority of corn-containing food do. Pets can live on corn and soybeans alone... pretty sure that means they're at least marginally nutritious.

Lastly, the corn being an allergen to MOST dogs is about as far from the truth as it gets. About 10% of dogs have allergies, and about 10 % of those dogs have food allergies. The top allergy producing foods are actually PROTEINS, including beef, eggs, and dairy products. The high protein grains (corn and wheat) do cause allergies, but not nearly to the extent that animal based products do. I very much doubt you can call a 10% of 10% of 10% of dogs anywhere close to MOST dogs...

I don't know if the nutritionist above has any contact with dogs outside of a research setting, but everything he has said is "technically" true. Would I feed MY dogs that way? Absolutely not. I'm not going to eat astronaut food for my entire life, and I won't feed my dogs that way either.

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Postby Allie » Sat Sep 22, 2007 8:28 am

Tons of dogs (can we assume the majority of dogs here in the states?) do just fine on crap food. My girl Jasmine lived the first few years of her life on pedigree and kibbles & bits. Heck, she ate pretty much nothing but cheese crackers and beef sticks for a whole summer once. But she was normal and healthy. Does that make it right? No.
I choose to give my dogs high quality kibble with good ingredients because it is the right thing to do. They get real food often as well. Just because they can do fine on crap doesn't make it ok. They thrive on better quality. I want to keep my dogs healthy and happy for as long as possible and I hope that caring about their food quality will help this goal.

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6pak
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Postby 6pak » Sat Sep 22, 2007 9:41 am

The veterinarian nutritionist on that site sell balanced home food recipes for dogs through consultation with you and your vet. It actually goes against their best interest to support the dog food industry. That's why I don't know what to believe. :dunno:

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Savage Destiny
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Postby Savage Destiny » Sat Sep 22, 2007 10:05 am

Misskiwi67 wrote:
Savage Destiny wrote:Well considering that corn gives absolutely NOTHING to a dog nutritionally, is an allergen to most dogs, and is only present in dog food as a filler... I have to say anyone who thinks corn completely fine in pet food shouldn't be calling themselves a pet nutritionist.


Except that everything you just posted is an urban myth. Corn is highly digestable when ground into a fine powder, I can't imagine anyone would feed their dog 60% filler and still have a healthy animal, but that is what the majority of corn-containing food do. Pets can live on corn and soybeans alone... pretty sure that means they're at least marginally nutritious.

Lastly, the corn being an allergen to MOST dogs is about as far from the truth as it gets. About 10% of dogs have allergies, and about 10 % of those dogs have food allergies. The top allergy producing foods are actually PROTEINS, including beef, eggs, and dairy products. The high protein grains (corn and wheat) do cause allergies, but not nearly to the extent that animal based products do. I very much doubt you can call a 10% of 10% of 10% of dogs anywhere close to MOST dogs...

I don't know if the nutritionist above has any contact with dogs outside of a research setting, but everything he has said is "technically" true. Would I feed MY dogs that way? Absolutely not. I'm not going to eat astronaut food for my entire life, and I won't feed my dogs that way either.


Well, if you're right, then you just contradicted everything my nutrition training has said. Sorry, but I think I'll go with my training here.

Corn is not easily digestible by dogs. Furthermore, it contains practically nothing, nutritionally, for a dog- hence why it is a FILLER. Yes, dogs can live on corn- you can also live on McDonalds cheeseburgers. That doesn't mean its healthy.

Oh, and you can tell the about 80% of dogs that buy food from the store I work at which have corn and wheat allergies that they're not supposed to be allergic, okay?

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Postby meginok » Sat Sep 22, 2007 10:38 am

Saying most dogs are allergic to corn/wheat/whatever is just silly. Even if 80% of the dogs whose food is purchased from your particular store really are allergic to certain grains, that isn't a sample that will give you any kind of idea of what the rest of the dogs in the world are like. That would be like me saying that, since one of my two dogs is allergic to rice and egg (among other things), 50% of the dogs out there must be allergic to rice and egg.

Most dogs will do "okay" on Ol' Roy or whatever crap-in-a-bag an owner chooses to feed. Will they do better on a high-quality food? Most likely. But doing better on alternative sources of nutrition doesn't mean one was allergic to the former source. Most of the cheapo grocery store foods contain a lot of corn, and since a bazillion pounds of that crap is sold every year, it's just a silly assertion that "most" dogs are allergic to ingredients in those foods.

I'd be interested to know what your "nutrition training" consists of, as I know a bit about misskiwi's, and am not super-quick to dismiss what she has to say in this arena.

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Postby Misskiwi67 » Sat Sep 22, 2007 10:48 am

Savage Destiny wrote:
Well, if you're right, then you just contradicted everything my nutrition training has said. Sorry, but I think I'll go with my training here.

Corn is not easily digestible by dogs. Furthermore, it contains practically nothing, nutritionally, for a dog- hence why it is a FILLER. Yes, dogs can live on corn- you can also live on McDonalds cheeseburgers. That doesn't mean its healthy.

Oh, and you can tell the about 80% of dogs that buy food from the store I work at which have corn and wheat allergies that they're not supposed to be allergic, okay?


What nutrition training? Human or veterinary? Have you read the research??? I HAVE read the research, and I have veterinary nutrition classes under my belt, and I am on the complete opposite spectrum, so what gives?

Allergic dogs?? How were they tested and diagnosed? In my experience, 90% of them have no diagnosis whatsoever, just an owners guess. I guessed on my dogs allergies too, and I was 100% wrong about them once I went through the process and got a real diagnosis. Just because a dog does better on a better (ie, fresh whole ingredients) food that just happens to be corn-free due to urban myths and consumer pressure doesn't mean the dog has a corn allergy.


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