Alarming trend in veterinary medicine

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Jazzy
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Alarming trend in veterinary medicine

Postby Jazzy » Sat Oct 13, 2007 6:49 pm

I've had the same vet for over 15 years and I love her. However in that time I have also sought the occassional second opinion, had to see someone else when my vet was sick, had to try the vet recommended to be "the absolute best" and had to access an e-vet a time or 2. In that time I came across the occassional vet who wanted to take my dog "in back" to draw blood, take a skin scrapping etc. In fact this is the policy of our closest e-vet. To which I say WTH is that about? In fact, I recently had my vet take blood to do an allergy test because the dermatologist wanted me to "leave my dog for an hour so she could sedate her to take blood and/or do a skin scrapping".

What do you guys think about this? I can't believe people are letting their vets get away with this. To me it's like a pediatrician saying to a parent "OK now, I'm just going to take little Johnny in back, away from you, with a bunch of strangers so we can do something scary to him" Huh???

I asked my vet about it and she said she was "old school"; but the reason vets are doing it is because the liability laws are so ridiculous that if my dog bit me in front of the vet who was doing a procedure I could sue the vet.

My personal opinion is that vets do it because 1. They have students practicing on your animal and they don't want to tell you and don't want you to watch or 2. They are incompetent and they don't want you to watch.

Either way the only way I would allow my dog to be treated away from me would be a serious scenario with an e-vet visit where I had no choice.

Any thoughts?

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Postby Sarah » Sat Oct 13, 2007 8:29 pm

Well, I'd be concerned about a vet wanting to sedate a dog for something as simple as a blood draw and skin scrape. But I have no problem with a vet wanting to take a dog in back for a simple procedure.

I've worked for vets, and that is most typically done because it's easier to grab someone away for a quick hand with a blood draw (or whatever) by taking the dog to them, rather than asking them to drop what they are doing and come into an exam room. Also, because most people can't handle their own dogs very well, and get the dogs more worked up than they need to be. By removing the dog from the owner, it's often easier to settle the dog, and get the procedure dealt with quickly.

My dogs sometimes go in back for procedures at my current vet, and I have no problem with it, because I trust the employees at the practice. At this practice, they also sometimes do it that way because I have 2 dogs, so one goes back with the tech for whatever, while the vet and I continue to look at the other dog.

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elegy
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Postby elegy » Sat Oct 13, 2007 8:54 pm

???

it makes me sad how suspicious people are of their vets. seriously.

we take pets in the back all the time. it's not because anybody is incompetent or because we're abusing your pet. it's safer, it's generally easier, and it's often faster for us to pop the dog into the back while the doctor is talking to the client in the room. many MANY dogs are so much better behaved without their owners in the room, they're less stressed because they aren't feeding off the anxious owner's stress, we have plenty of staff in the back without having to pull somebody extra up front to help in the rooms, and it makes things go so much more smoothly.

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Postby Jazzy » Sat Oct 13, 2007 9:10 pm

I guess I'm just spoiled by my vet as I very much prefer her practice style. My vet has techs to assist with surgery, but other than that she does everything herself. It all goes smoothly and none of the dogs seem stressed in the least. I can say this because she has a very small office and you can see into the exam room from the waiting room; and you cannot go to her office without it overflowing with dogs.

I understand your position elegy, and I don't mean to offend; but yes I am suspicious. It's one thing if I know the professional and have come to trust them (For example I have no problem leaving my dog for surgery in my vets care, I trust her implicitly.) But to go to a large vet practice where there are all sorts of people that I don't personally know who will be touching my dog without me present...nope, not gonna happen. It's not a personal indictment against anyone, it's just way out of my comfort zone.

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Postby Timas Mom » Sat Oct 13, 2007 9:27 pm

I've worked in the vet industry for over 4 years and

1. Most dogs are more pliable when their owners are not there: no need to protect, or milk it for sympathy. Not to say your dog does , but many do!!!

2. Many owners are very permissive with their dogs who scream at their feet being touched etc. These owners also tend to pale and protest when something HAS to be done but puppy doesnt want it.

3.Anals can stink up a small exam rm in no time flat and many owners have gagged when present.

4. client comes in for an itchy dog, and now they need bloodowrk, skin scrapings and dog has yeast infections requiring antibiotics. If sceduled badly a 15 minut slot can turn into 45 minutes. If the dog is brought to the back, the tech and a assistant can draw theblood, while the doctor does the skin scrapping and inspects under the mcroscope, while letting the assistant know the script for the meds to be made. Expedites the procedure and you leave in 20 minutes.And jsut so you know, most techs I know are better at drawing blod than the dr :)

There are other instances but the vet I worked for for over 2 years was very practical. His breeder clients wanted to be present for everything, knew what to expect and was no problem. Owners who need to be shielded for the procedure or pets who do better without their owners go to the back. He has my utmost respect for his practices, and I trust him with my Tima. I truly think you would feel uncertain with a vet immediately if he was incompetant.

for example, my Tima will work you if she can. She looks straight in your face when you go to take blood and shrieks like a 3 yr old girl. My regular techs and assistants admonish her with a stern thats enough and continue without missing a beat. When she needed an injection at emerg 'cause she got at rat poison ( at hubbys work) she screamed when they grabbed her paw (she hates her nails trimmed) and again when they injected her. Scared the crap out of them and then she crawled into their laps. When they told me how she got extra cuddles ect and how bad they felt i had to laugh. I showed them that sometimes she'll even try it with my husband when he grabs her paw. They were floored. They had concerns there was something wrong with her foot!!!

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Postby Sariss » Sat Oct 13, 2007 9:45 pm

As a vet tech who has been nearly attacked while attempting to take blood infront of an owner, then being loved to death by the same dog when we took her downstairs - I have to say wow, paranoid much?

This offends me for some reason. Come work in a clinic. :)

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Postby Sariss » Sat Oct 13, 2007 9:47 pm

BTW - not saying you are one of those owners. Just a peeve of mine...

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Postby Rumpley » Sun Oct 14, 2007 1:40 am

I just got a new vet that likes to take Jammie "into the back." To be honest, I find it really disturbing too.

In fact it bothered me so much that I thought next time I'm going to tell her I prefer to stay with my dog, or have the treatment done in the exam room. If they won't do that, I'll go elsewhere. What really bugged me the most is that she didn't explain why they were taking the dog into the back - just "We'll be back in a minute..." and off they whisked her. Jammie was SO panicked by the time they brought her back into the room, I now have a dog that is terrified of going to the vet. Jammie totally trusts me, but to have strangers restrain her completely wigged her out. This never happened with my dogs that were treated in the exam room with me present."

I work at a shelter, am not a freakazoid about medical procedures etc, etc. I just REALLY don't like that "closed door" thing.

My dogs are actually much better with me around - not nearly as freaked out, as I handle them and if need be restrain them for medical stuff and they trust me vs. some stranger taking my dog into the back of a strange room which pretty much pushes them over the edge, making them hate going to that clinic.

I've even had my old vet, who was awesome, invite me into the back because he knew my dogs would respond much better to restraint if I did it.

When the procedures were done in the room with me present, the dogs weren't nearly as scared to go to the vet each time. So it's either with me present, or no money for that vet any more....

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Postby Rumpley » Sun Oct 14, 2007 1:44 am

Oh, and I also wanted to add, if the vet isn't willing to let you watch, makes me wonder what methods they're using on your dog? Seriously though, if they know the dog is sound and won't bite, and you are collected too - why take it away from the owner?

I've seen some pretty unnecessary rough stuff going on with vet techs/vets since I work in the industry, and I always have to wonder if they'd do things the same if the owner was watching - doubtful!!! I know they don't have "time to screw around", and stroke owner's emotions etc, but sometimes it's just over the top impatience and roughness.

If I'm cool with decent sound medical treatment, they should have nothing to hide, right?

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Postby Maryellen » Sun Oct 14, 2007 6:17 am

i always watch the procedures, with the exception of sonnys xrays this past tuesday, i have watched every procedure done on my dogs andhave never left them. if i didnt leave him and walk out the xray room tuesday night i could have stopped the vet tech from stretching his left leg out numerous times too hard to take xrays, and he would have been able to walk on that leg..not anymore.. i will never let any vet take my dog inthe back and wait.. sorry, but some vets and techs are rough with dogs, some arent..

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Postby BabyReba » Sun Oct 14, 2007 7:11 am

my vets have always taken my dogs "in the back" to do some stuff (usually to do blood draws) and it never really bothered me. I wouldn't use a vet I didn't like or feel comfortable with, so I guess I jsut feel comfortable with my vets enough to not even think twice when they want to take my dogs to the back . . . usually they come back telling me how good my dogs were and asking if they can give them a treat for being so well behaved.

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Jazzy
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Postby Jazzy » Sun Oct 14, 2007 7:35 am

some vets and techs are rough with dogs, some arent..


if the vet isn't willing to let you watch, makes me wonder what methods they're using on your dog?


I know they don't have "time to screw around", and stroke owner's emotions etc, but sometimes it's just over the top impatience and roughness.


Ditto.

I also want to be clear, I am NOT anti vet tech. I don't trust an unknown vet anymore than I trust an unknown tech; I simply feel strongly that if you really know your stuff (and assuming I'm not a complete hysterical kookoo bird - and lets be honest, this is describing the extreme pet owner, not your "average Joe") then they should be able to do whatever they are going to do to my dog in front of me.

And just an aside because I feel like some vet professionals may take it personally; my opinion on what I need to do to protect me dog, has nothing to do with a lack of respect for the knowledge,and skill that veterinary medical folks have or a lack of appreciation for how hard there job is.

Just an aside...I am a counselor. Whenever a new client, who doesn't know me from a hole in the wall, professes that they trust me completely and will do whatever I recommend...I cringe. We then spend the entire session discussing trust. Besides telling them that trust is something someone earns by repeatedly displaying acceptable behavior over a LOOONG period of time; I also tell them that there are disreputable people in all walks of life and you cannot assign trust based on profession. I teach them what to look for to begin to assess if someone is trustworthy. I teach them the red flags that suggest someone isn't. I give them reputable resources to research & learn for themselves. And most of all I insist that they be a PARTNER in there care and that I expect them to question me. Wow...sorry that was long. So that said, that is how I approach my relationship with my doctor (trust me, not all appreciate it, but then they're not my doctors anymore so it doesn't matter :)). This is also how I approach my relationship with my vet.

As I said, I am comfortable leaving my dog when necessary for surgery...and poor Frannie, I had to leave her all the time...x-rays, ultrasounds, etc...but by then I trusted my vet; I also trusted the vet techs...because by then I knew them all and had had personal experience with them (in front of me so I could see what they were doing & make my own assessment of my comfort with their skill levels) and Thank God, by the time Fran got really sick...they had earned my trust.



[/quote]Also, because most people can't handle their own dogs very well, and get the dogs more worked up than they need to be.

I don't have personal experience with this. I am sure there are cases where this may be true...but my dogs have always been perfectly fine with me being there...blood, nails, anal glands...whatever.



MANY dogs are so much better behaved without their owners in the room, they're less stressed because they aren't feeding off the anxious owner's stress,


Or just another perspective...perhaps they are traumatized, scared to death and afraid to act out because there is no one there to protect them.

And finally:
owners also tend to pale and protest when something HAS to be done but puppy doesnt want it.


I think we all know when something HAS to be done; but perhaps the issue becomes one of how it is done. When my Fran got older she had a problem with collapsing veins. Something came up and she needed bloodwork. I watched my vet spend over 20 minutes trying to get blood. She got it, and she did not hurt my dog. As I was there I also had the perogative of saying when enough was enough. Sometimes even things that have to be done, don't necessarily have to be done at that exact time, in the particular way by that specific person.

I know I was long winded. I apologize. Thanks for reading. We have finally hit upon a topic that I am extremely passionate about.

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Jazzy
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Postby Jazzy » Sun Oct 14, 2007 7:39 am

Despite having re-read several times...there is still at least 1 typo in the above...and I am guilty of being inarticulate with my "asides"...God I hate being passionate! lol

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Postby BabyReba » Sun Oct 14, 2007 7:49 am

i think part of the difference in how you perceive things is the relationship you have with your vet and how long you've been working with your vet practice. i've always searched hard for a vet that i really like and respect and who i feel respects and likes my dogs. i've been with the same vet for 5.5 years and before that the vet i used i'd been with for, like, 6 or 7 years.

with 3 dogs in my house, i tend to see my vet way more often than i see a human doctor, so i have had a lot of opportunity to develop that level of comfort with them as well.

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Postby Gatorpit » Sun Oct 14, 2007 7:50 am

Kinda off topic but it amused me at the time. I came home for a lunch break one day, and my ex was home with the dogs. Butterbean was just a pup, and he had mysteriously slashes his forearm pretty good, and was bleeding all over the place. It happened right before I got home. I called a vet to get a quote on stitches, and was told it would be $65 for the exam and stitches, and $30 for a sedative. I told them that they probably wouldn't need the sedative, as Butter didn't even realize he had been hurt.

I left him with the vet, and picked him up after work. When they billed me it came to only $65, so I asked "what happened to the sedative?"

"Oh, we didn't need it, he didn't even seem to feel the stitches."

"Told you."


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