Alternative's to Hill I/D

Talk about diets, exercise, and disease.
Fixedgearjerk
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Alternative's to Hill I/D

Postby Fixedgearjerk » Fri Nov 23, 2007 11:43 am

Ok, my vet reccomended that Ava eats prescription HIll's i/d kibble at over $2 a pound. I look at the label and can't rationalize spending that for the included ingrediants. I bought a bag and damn it set it straight. Ava does do well with this food, as opposed to Wellness, Solid Gold, Natures Variety that I had tried before and constantly gave her loose stool. Are there any alternatives to the Hill's? I want whats best for Ava but don't want to be ripped off if thats the case. What are your general impressions of this food? Link to food and pic of Ava for views! Thanks!

http://www.hillspet.com/hillspet/products/productDetails.hjsp?PRODUCT<>prd_id=845524441760640

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pitgrrl
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Postby pitgrrl » Fri Nov 23, 2007 11:52 am

Are you up for making home cooked food or feeding raw?
What exactly is the issue with Ava?

I went through pretty much every kibble I could find with one of my dogs, including prescription foods, and none worked. Finally I started making food at home using a pre-prepared base, which worked well for about 2 years, then I finally switched to raw this year and it's working even better.

Fixedgearjerk
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Postby Fixedgearjerk » Fri Nov 23, 2007 12:01 pm

My vet hasn't been able to pinpoint whats the issue. On other foods she consistantly had loose stool, real bad. We tried medication for IBD and it didn't work so he said that isn't the issue. Switched her the Hill's and she has taken very well to it, just doesn't seem like the best answer to me. Raw/prepared has crossed my mind more then once, the commitment doesn't scare me I'm just not sure if it will sit right with her.

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InBearsMemory
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Re:

Postby InBearsMemory » Fri Nov 23, 2007 12:16 pm

How much and how often do you feed your dog throughout the day? Just wondering. It might just be something stupid as the dog getting too much food at a single feeding.

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geisthexe
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Re: Alternative's to Hill I/D

Postby geisthexe » Fri Nov 23, 2007 12:40 pm

Hello Fixedgearjerk

Ok first off Vets do not know squat about Nutrition they only have 14 to 16 hours of training in it in school.

What are your general impressions of this food? Hill's Diets are the worse think you can feed your dog along with the crap you can get at Walmart and the grocery store

- Wellness, is a pretty decent food if you get the right one.
- Solid Gold, I would not feed to a dead dog. It is owned by Diamond dog food and we all know what happen a year ago with them.
- Natures Variety, is very rich and hard on a dog system

Are there any alternatives to the Hill's?
- Breeders Choice = http://www.breeders-choice.com/
- Canidae = http://www.canidae.com/
- Blue Buffalo = http://www.bluebuff.com/products/dogs/index.shtml
- Orijen = http://www.championpetfoods.com/orijen/orijen/
- Taste of the wild = http://www.tasteofthewildpetfood.com/

All these foods do not have WHEAT CORN OR SOY IN THEM which are the most problems dog have with allergies or digestion. Pit Bull and terrier breeds have the worse propblems with these.


RAW Diet would be the best diet for any dog b/c you know what you are putting in.
BARF or Premade RAW diets are ok in my book but not worth the money

I have been feeding RAW to dogs for 11 yrs now and have helped people design personal diets for there dogs.

Hope this helps you

Deb

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Timas Mom
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Postby Timas Mom » Fri Nov 23, 2007 1:03 pm

Tima has many food intolerances and allergies. She always had diarhea, stomach cramps, rashes ect. She would poop 6 times a day minimum.
I tried 21 kibbles and NONE sit well with her. She has issues with Canola oil, sunflower and safflower oil, white fleshed fish, rice and poultry. We also think the result of porcessing the proteins in kibble cause issues for her.

I have tried everything from Firstmate Fish and potato, Natures Variety Rabbit Instinct, PVD Allergy, Hills ZD Ultra and many others.

Tima did well on a home-cooked diet, with a free vitamin supplement from your vet ( if the sell Royal Canin/Medical)

She is now on raw as its less time consuming on me.

My point. If she does well, her health and coat are good and you find raw or homecooked too consuming, stick with what works. Hills does a tonne of research and are the leaders in nutrional research. They do the work, and many other companies reap the benefits of their knowledge. I wish they used more meat and other ingrediants, but if Tima could eat id I would buy it. She did well on Ultra ZD for a few months, and its 2x the cost of ID.

If you do want to try something different, I would try a single carb and single protein with as few ingrediants as possible.

It looks like all the foods you mentioned have canola oil in it. Look online and make alist of all the same ingrediant of the foods you have already tried. Find a food without those ingrediants.

Best of luck, I feel your pain!

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geisthexe
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Postby geisthexe » Fri Nov 23, 2007 1:15 pm

Timas Mom writes : Hills does a tonne of research and are the leaders in nutrional research. They do the work, and many other companies reap the benefits of their knowledge. I wish they used more meat and other ingrediants, but if Tima could eat id I would buy it. She did well on Ultra ZD for a few months, and its 2x the cost of ID.

Tima mom,

They do research but never change there ways. It has been proven time and time again that what they put in there food are one of leaders in making dogs ill.
you have to realize they are no different then the pharmaceutical companies out there that run our medical for humans and animals now.
Most vets that sell it own stock in the company as this is one thing they offer them as well as free food. The more they sell the more is free.

I even know vets that will never recommend it to there clients.

Be Warned! look for food that will benefit the dog not harm it.


Deb

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CinderDee
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Postby CinderDee » Fri Nov 23, 2007 1:50 pm

My dog had loose stool on every kibble, but did really well on Timberwolf's Bison. He's eating raw now.

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geisthexe
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Postby geisthexe » Fri Nov 23, 2007 2:13 pm

CinderDee wrote:My dog had loose stool on every kibble, but did really well on Timberwolf's Bison. He's eating raw now.


Could you please post what other foods you used?
Did you look at the different ingredients to see why the others did not work?
Did you use any of the ones that I suggested?

I am very curious to learn

Thank you

Deb

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pitgrrl
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Postby pitgrrl » Fri Nov 23, 2007 2:24 pm

Fixedgearjerk wrote:My vet hasn't been able to pinpoint whats the issue. On other foods she consistantly had loose stool, real bad. We tried medication for IBD and it didn't work so he said that isn't the issue. Switched her the Hill's and she has taken very well to it, just doesn't seem like the best answer to me. Raw/prepared has crossed my mind more then once, the commitment doesn't scare me I'm just not sure if it will sit right with her.


If it helps any, because of all the GI problems I've had with Streets, every time I've tried something new I was petrified. Since no kibbles worked, I first tried Essex Cottage Farms Gastro Formula which worked really well (and immediately), and makes home cooking easy, but is a bit of a rip off.

After that I switched to a combo of pre-made raw foods, which is what Streets is on now and doing really well.

I also think it's worth noting that certain ingredients that I stayed away from because Streets couldn't tolerate them in kibble, turned out to be fine in un-/less processed forms. Don't know why, but hey, I don't care lol

On a slightly un-related note, slippery elm powder is an amazing help if your dog is having stomach/intestinal upset.

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2fatcatsandapitbull
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Postby 2fatcatsandapitbull » Fri Nov 23, 2007 3:12 pm

Your dog is gorgeous!!

My female had alternating diarrhea/loose stool for about 4 months after adopting her. the vet had no answers other than flagyl and a bag of i/d. once i read the ingredient list, i started my search for a more wholesome food.

she did ok on california natural chicken and rice but just wasn't eager to eat it. after much trial and error, we ended up stopping at canidae chicken and rice. this and the canidae ALS are the ONLY foods she can eat without having an attack of colitis. she can now have bully sticks also.
we never were able to pinpoint a common ingredient that she cannot digest.

raw has performed miracles for my friend's dog who had severe skin allergies and digestive issues, but it did not work for my female.

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Maryellen
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Postby Maryellen » Fri Nov 23, 2007 3:26 pm

did your vet do a blood test for EPI or SIBO? some dogs that have SIBO or EPI have loose stools as its ONE of the many symptoms.. i would have the vet do the blood test and see if she has epi or sibo, especially if you cant get any kibble to work...

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jlphilli
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Postby jlphilli » Fri Nov 23, 2007 5:53 pm

Despite the fact you may think the I/D ingredients are "crap," there is a reason behind it.....dogs with IBD/colitis issues do better on diets that have moderate to low protein, low nutrient-heavy carbs (aka rice and/or potato are better tolerated), and on foods that have few ingredients.

If you don't want to feed I/D, a few alternative options are:

-Natural Balance Fish/Duck or Venison and Potato formulas
-IVD Limited Ingredient Diets (Fish, Duck or Rabbit & Potato)
-Pro Plan Sensitive Skin/Stomach (fish based w/ rice and oatmeal)

All of these formulas are very good for dogs with stomach issues as they have alternative protein sources that are lower in protein, and also have simple carbohydrates.

Hope this helps.

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Postby Misskiwi67 » Fri Nov 23, 2007 6:10 pm

jlphilli wrote:Despite the fact you may think the I/D ingredients are "crap," there is a reason behind it.....dogs with IBD/colitis issues do better on diets that have moderate to low protein, low nutrient-heavy carbs (aka rice and/or potato are better tolerated), and on foods that have few ingredients.

If you don't want to feed I/D, a few alternative options are:

-Natural Balance Fish/Duck or Venison and Potato formulas
-IVD Limited Ingredient Diets (Fish, Duck or Rabbit & Potato)
-Pro Plan Sensitive Skin/Stomach (fish based w/ rice and oatmeal)

All of these formulas are very good for dogs with stomach issues as they have alternative protein sources that are lower in protein, and also have simple carbohydrates.

Hope this helps.


Big Ditto...

And I'd like to add California Natural Chicken and Rice to the list...

It sounds like your dog needs a simple food, and most of the "super-premiums" are exactly the opposite... the companies pack as much pretty looking junk into the food as they possibly can... try something simple.

Most of all... LISTEN TO YOUR DOG!!! If she's doing well on a $2/pound food, then don't you think its worth it?

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Postby pitgrrl » Fri Nov 23, 2007 6:20 pm

jlphilli wrote:Despite the fact you may think the I/D ingredients are "crap," there is a reason behind it.....dogs with IBD/colitis issues do better on diets that have moderate to low protein, low nutrient-heavy carbs (aka rice and/or potato are better tolerated), and on foods that have few ingredients.


It's funny, every vet I've ever been to has told me this, and yet, I've gotten the best results from a diet of raw meat, no grains, limited veggies. Rice, oatmeal, etc. cause anything from liquid poop to blood filled butt explosions :dunno:

My point being, having dealt with these issues for a few years now, my own experience tells me that not only do high carb presciption diets fail to control the poop issues in a satisfactory long term manner, but what good they do do is so far outweighed by the cost to the whole dog that it's not worth it.

It's also been my experience that chronic GI problems are a weird thing, what will work for one dog might be a disaster for another. By extension, the idea that a specific type of diet will work for all dogs seems crazy to me.


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