Alternative's to Hill I/D

Talk about diets, exercise, and disease.
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Misskiwi67
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Postby Misskiwi67 » Fri Nov 23, 2007 7:21 pm

pitgrrl wrote:
It's funny, every vet I've ever been to has told me this, and yet, I've gotten the best results from a diet of raw meat, no grains, limited veggies. Rice, oatmeal, etc. cause anything from liquid poop to blood filled butt explosions :dunno:

My point being, having dealt with these issues for a few years now, my own experience tells me that not only do high carb presciption diets fail to control the poop issues in a satisfactory long term manner, but what good they do do is so far outweighed by the cost to the whole dog that it's not worth it.

It's also been my experience that chronic GI problems are a weird thing, what will work for one dog might be a disaster for another. By extension, the idea that a specific type of diet will work for all dogs seems crazy to me.


In general, dogs with GI issues DO tend to respond to easier to digest, low fat, less dense foods. Prescription diets have the research to back them up. That doesn't mean they work 100% of the time either... and just like you've seen, sometimes it does take extreme measures to find a diet that really works for a dog.

With that said, this diet IS working for this dog, and that in itself should be significant player in the food choices that the owner makes in the future. Thats why jlphilli and I made the suggestions we did...

Fixedgearjerk
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Postby Fixedgearjerk » Sat Nov 24, 2007 11:42 pm

Thanks to everyone for the response's and suggestions. To answer a couple questions, we feed her about a cup and a half every morning and then another 1.5 cups in the evening, the vet did not test or mention to me about EPI or SIBO testing, I'll have to ask him I geuss 8l This has been our second vet thus far with her, maybe time to find #3.

Misskiwi67 wrote:Most of all... LISTEN TO YOUR DOG!!! If she's doing well on a $2/pound food, then don't you think its worth it?



I think you missed my concern, the price is not the issue, I just want to know what makes that food "prescription" and how the ingredient list looks so poor at such a "premium" price.

I'd like to try and start supplementing her diet with some raw foods to test the waters. Not sure where to start, more importantly I want to make positivly sure she is stable on the base food. She's only went through 20#'s of the I/D so far. Thanks a lot for all the suggestions, please keep the advice coming.

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geisthexe
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Postby geisthexe » Sun Nov 25, 2007 12:16 am

Fixedgearjerk wrote:I'd like to try and start supplementing her diet with some raw foods to test the waters. Not sure where to start, more importantly I want to make positivly sure she is stable on the base food. She's only went through 20#'s of the I/D so far. Thanks a lot for all the suggestions, please keep the advice coming.


IF you want to start on some raw things start with veggies.
- Green beans
- Pumpkin
- Carrot
All a great way to start dogs off on veggies w/o having problems with diarrhea.

With dogs that have never eaten a RAW diet, I always say baby steps are the best.


Deb

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Jazzy
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Postby Jazzy » Sun Nov 25, 2007 7:52 am

I've been following along, and I've had my own concerns as I've been feeding Hill's Prescription z/d ultra for a few months and Veronica has been doing well on it.

I was a couple of weeks ago saying to someone "if the dog is doing well on it, maybe it's best not to mess with it" and I was myself coming to terms with the Hill's even though I also felt the ingredients were "crap".

My biggest concern was the chemical preservatives. I told myself I was "ok" with the BHA when I found out it is also in my cereal and used in human foods. However I still wasn't entirely comfortable and continued to scour the internet and forums for information. Someone on another forum made the following point "yes, BHA is used in some human foods as a preserative, like cereal, crackers, twinkies...but, we do not subsist on that food...we do not get a steady supply of chemical in every single meal".

It made me nervous. Then I looked further and discovered the z/d dry even has a bit of ethoxyquin in it (which is more widely accepted as a bad preservative.)

I ended up with a compromise. Veronica was getting wet & dry. I am keeping the Hill's wet (which while it may have crap ingredients...may not...I do hear what others are saying about the research and formulation that goes into developing the food...but point being, the wet food does not have chemical preservatives in it).

I switched the dry to another food which my vet ok'ed (canidae ALS) and so far things seem to be going well...but it's only been a week.

Good luck with your decision!

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pitgrrl
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Postby pitgrrl » Sun Nov 25, 2007 8:24 am

Fixedgearjerk wrote:I'd like to try and start supplementing her diet with some raw foods to test the waters. Not sure where to start, more importantly I want to make positivly sure she is stable on the base food. She's only went through 20#'s of the I/D so far. Thanks a lot for all the suggestions, please keep the advice coming.


Though it terrified me to do so, because I was expecting some sort of horrible poop explosion, I just switched the dogs to 1 meal a day of raw. I supplemented with slippery elm during the change and it went totally smoothly.
I switched over completely to raw I did it cold turkey again. (The raw I give is pre-made and the bones are ground up though, so maybe that made the switch easier :dunno:)

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jlphilli
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Postby jlphilli » Sun Nov 25, 2007 10:01 am

Jazzy wrote:I've been following along, and I've had my own concerns as I've been feeding Hill's Prescription z/d ultra for a few months and Veronica has been doing well on it.

I was a couple of weeks ago saying to someone "if the dog is doing well on it, maybe it's best not to mess with it" and I was myself coming to terms with the Hill's even though I also felt the ingredients were "crap".

My biggest concern was the chemical preservatives. I told myself I was "ok" with the BHA when I found out it is also in my cereal and used in human foods. However I still wasn't entirely comfortable and continued to scour the internet and forums for information. Someone on another forum made the following point "yes, BHA is used in some human foods as a preserative, like cereal, crackers, twinkies...but, we do not subsist on that food...we do not get a steady supply of chemical in every single meal".

It made me nervous. Then I looked further and discovered the z/d dry even has a bit of ethoxyquin in it (which is more widely accepted as a bad preservative.)

I ended up with a compromise. Veronica was getting wet & dry. I am keeping the Hill's wet (which while it may have crap ingredients...may not...I do hear what others are saying about the research and formulation that goes into developing the food...but point being, the wet food does not have chemical preservatives in it).

I switched the dry to another food which my vet ok'ed (canidae ALS) and so far things seem to be going well...but it's only been a week.

Good luck with your decision!


The reason they have to use BHA in Z/D is because of the second ingredient being Hydrolyzed Chicken Liver.....BHA is the only preservative strong enough to preserve that ingredient. (Hence why Bil-Jac also uses BHA--because of the organs-only byproducts they use--the only thing that is safe enough to preserve it). :)


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