mating

Talk about diets, exercise, and disease.
Chili Peppers
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Postby Chili Peppers » Sat Jul 05, 2008 5:43 pm

philicia wrote:
Red wrote:
what do you think that because i am only 19 i dont have money to get the pups shots? and regular health screenings? that i dont have any responsibility?


No, you have none, zero, nada.If you had any responsibility you would not be breeding pit bulls.It is a shame that people like you own these dogs.


why is it a shame?


Because for EACH puppy you produce, a pitbull dies in a shelter. Plain and simple.

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philicia
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Postby philicia » Sat Jul 05, 2008 5:45 pm

julie64 wrote:
philicia wrote:why are you guys so mean to me though?

geeezz.


No one is being mean, just honest. You said you are responsible, but your replies prove otherwise.

BTW everyone wants puppies before they are born, but seem to disappear once the pups are here. Got a backup plan for the pups no one wants?

So you never answered my question, are the pups going to be spayed? or is going to be even more puppies in the future?


i know but dam you guys are targeting my love for them.

if the people really don't want the pups after they are out.... i would definitely keep 2 or 3 of them. i cant stand giving dogs away to shelters. i never have. and never will.

i do plan on spaying the pups when they are born. and after this litter im spaying marcy definitely. i don't want her to have any more.

she is not a breeding machine. it was not my decision to have her get 2 pregnancies back to back in the past.

but anywho im going to work now talk to you guys later.

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Jorsher
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Postby Jorsher » Sat Jul 05, 2008 5:50 pm

Philicia, I've been 19 myself years ago so I know you are not going to listen to anything we say here. It's understandable, you're young, and as responsible as you think you are - you aren't. It's something 95% of us have been through, where we think we know what we're doing when we're young than find out we don't. I'm still paying for mistakes I made at your age.

Nobody here is trying to change your opinion, we're simply trying to explain to you that there are TOO MANY pit bulls already in existence. TOO MANY blue, red, chocolate, brindle, purple, pink, papered, unpapered, etc etc etc pit bulls.

The pit bulls you have MAY have good temperaments. The problem is, they're WAY too friggin' young to know how their temperament will be when they mature. Being able to have sex does not mean mature...I've had sex for years and years and just now consider myself mature.

By health check, we don't mean take it to the vet, we mean actual thorough health checks. The dogs you are breeding could have good temperaments, could have good health, but none have matured nor been tested to know.

If you think we need more pit bulls in the world, go take a visit to your nearest shelter, look at craigslist, or even ask around and there are PLENTY of people with puppies for sale. You basically are breeding two dogs of unknown health and temperament, that will more than likely (I'd bet DEFINITELY) not all end up in good homes for their entire life.

How are you going to feel when one of the puppies you bred ends up having a very bad temperament or goes to a bad home and ends up hurting someone? How about when you see another pit bull making headlines and it turns out to be the one you bred?

That hurts ALL of us.

Will any of this definitely happen? Maybe not. But leave the breeding to the people that have been doing it for more years than you have been alive, and actually know what they are breeding.

We're not trying to tell YOU what to do, we're trying to protect more puppies from getting euthanized and possibly more bad headlines to continue the pressure on our breed. If your friends want a "blue" or "blue brindle" puppy, tell them to look around the shelters and I guarantee they will find one. They aren't as special as people think they are.

We aren't trying to run you off or "be mean" to you. We're simply trying to protect the breed we love. A lot of people here are much older than you (no offense lol ) or work in shelters and see first hand what damage BYBs cause.

Again, I'm 99% sure you'll continue doing what you're doing and thinking that you know what you're doing, because I've been there before. Please take these suggestions to heart. For the little extra money in your pocket, you are indirectly hurting all of us, allowing more pups to die that could be adopted instead of buying from another BYB, and 3 litters from that 1-1.5yr old pup is NOT GOOD. How worn do you think you would be after having 3 children by your current age? It's worse the for the dog.

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philicia
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Postby philicia » Sat Jul 05, 2008 5:53 pm

msvette2u wrote:Tell me how you'll find homes for the puppies??
All your friends will ask their parents and they won't be able to have a puppy after all that.
Pit bulls are being banned ALL over the state of Washington, limiting where you can place them.
Do you realize the PUPPIES you breed will wind up DYING in a shelter somewhere??
Think it THROUGH. Seriously.
Your female has puppies and winds up needing an emergency cesearean.
You have no money on hand to do it. She dies in labor or the vet DOES see her only if you relinquish her to the clinic.
If you thought it through you'd be spaying her. We all know that.
If you thought it through you'd never want to bring a litter on to the face of the earth.


most of my friends dont live with their parents. the ones who do want them have their own place. these friends are not 19. these friends are in their late 20's and early 30's.

like i said in my last post i would never give up my dogs to a shelter. i have good homes lined up for them.

come on guys....seriously.

i would not let anyone hurt them.

i am financially stable. i dont live with my parents if thats what you all think.

and if it helps i will post up pictures of them (the pups) with their new homes. when they are out. that wont be for a while though.

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Jorsher
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Postby Jorsher » Sat Jul 05, 2008 5:55 pm

philicia wrote:and if it helps i will post up pictures of them (the pups) with their new homes. when they are out. that wont be for a while though.


And a receipt with 6 neuters 2 spays?

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philicia
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Postby philicia » Sat Jul 05, 2008 5:56 pm

Jorsher wrote:Philicia, I've been 19 myself years ago so I know you are not going to listen to anything we say here. It's understandable, you're young, and as responsible as you think you are - you aren't. It's something 95% of us have been through, where we think we know what we're doing when we're young than find out we don't. I'm still paying for mistakes I made at your age.

Nobody here is trying to change your opinion, we're simply trying to explain to you that there are TOO MANY pit bulls already in existence. TOO MANY blue, red, chocolate, brindle, purple, pink, papered, unpapered, etc etc etc pit bulls.

The pit bulls you have MAY have good temperaments. The problem is, they're WAY too friggin' young to know how their temperament will be when they mature. Being able to have sex does not mean mature...I've had sex for years and years and just now consider myself mature.

By health check, we don't mean take it to the vet, we mean actual thorough health checks. The dogs you are breeding could have good temperaments, could have good health, but none have matured nor been tested to know.

If you think we need more pit bulls in the world, go take a visit to your nearest shelter, look at craigslist, or even ask around and there are PLENTY of people with puppies for sale. You basically are breeding two dogs of unknown health and temperament, that will more than likely (I'd bet DEFINITELY) not all end up in good homes for their entire life.

How are you going to feel when one of the puppies you bred ends up having a very bad temperament or goes to a bad home and ends up hurting someone? How about when you see another pit bull making headlines and it turns out to be the one you bred?

That hurts ALL of us.

Will any of this definitely happen? Maybe not. But leave the breeding to the people that have been doing it for more years than you have been alive, and actually know what they are breeding.

We're not trying to tell YOU what to do, we're trying to protect more puppies from getting euthanized and possibly more bad headlines to continue the pressure on our breed. If your friends want a "blue" or "blue brindle" puppy, tell them to look around the shelters and I guarantee they will find one. They aren't as special as people think they are.

We aren't trying to run you off or "be mean" to you. We're simply trying to protect the breed we love. A lot of people here are much older than you (no offense lol ) or work in shelters and see first hand what damage BYBs cause.

Again, I'm 99% sure you'll continue doing what you're doing and thinking that you know what you're doing, because I've been there before. Please take these suggestions to heart. For the little extra money in your pocket, you are indirectly hurting all of us, allowing more pups to die that could be adopted instead of buying from another BYB, and 3 litters from that 1-1.5yr old pup is NOT GOOD. How worn do you think you would be after having 3 children by your current age? It's worse the for the dog.



i understand :peace:

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mommy2kane
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Postby mommy2kane » Sat Jul 05, 2008 5:56 pm

IMHO, it would probably be best to do a spay abort.

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Jorsher
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Postby Jorsher » Sat Jul 05, 2008 6:08 pm

Nobody is trying to say you are irresponsible, just that this particular thing is irresponsible.

I moved out when I was 17, worked 2 full time jobs and also went to college full time (became a zombie!), and "thought" I was responsible and mature. It's only until you're older and can look back on the past that you realize "I should have listened."

I really hope you do a spay-abort and get your puppies fixed. I would really hate to see you posting that your dog died during her pregnancy due to complications, or that later on she acquired serious health problems because of all the pregnancies, forcing you to pay LOADS of money to a vet or having to put her down.

I've had soooooooo many people ask me to breed Molly with theirs, and as great and beautiful as a dog I think she is, and as much as I wouldn't mind the extra money, the money isn't worth the guilt I'd go through if something happened to her or her pups or the pups that will be put down because someone bought from me instead of rescuing some from the shelter.

Honestly, before I joined this forum and when I first got Molly, I considered breeding her. Only when I joined did I realize the implications of it, and I'm glad to say I quickly changed my mind.

I hope you do the same :frown:

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Postby bahamutt99 » Sat Jul 05, 2008 6:16 pm

When I was a teenager breeding dogs, I knew EXACTLY what I was doing, and nobody could convince me otherwise. I knew my dog would make pretty puppies with the rednose around the corner, and I was totally right. They were beautiful pups. Everybody wanted them. We placed all of those pups in "good homes." I knew I had been right all along.

It took a few years for the reality to sink in. Those pups dropped like flies.

Milo: Shot by police
Velvet: Survived Corona (we paid for treatment), only to be hit by car
Runt pup from 1st litter: Fading puppy syndrome
Mookie: Still alive and well
Tex: Probably a junkyard dog, if he's still alive
Cooter & Metalhead: Unstable manbiters, had to be PTS
Demon: Given away because owner got tired of fence jumping
Morticia: Survived Parvo (we paid for treatment), given away with Demon
Otis: Last heard, was healthy, but causing problems by fence-fighting with landlord's dog
Forrest: Stolen
Pookie: Sold way too young, who knows what happened to her
Chiquita (mom dog): dumped in pound with her mates after we placed her with the stud owner when she started fighting with her year-old offspring we kept
Chase and Thug (stud dogs): dumped in pound because stud owner was tired of dealing with the fleas

Those are just the ones I can remember off the top of my head. It took years for me to realize what I'd been a party to, but believe me, it weighs heavy on my conscience now. Did you know that the average dog is either dead or dumped in a shelter by the age of 4? I can't remember where I read that, but in light of my experience, its probably true.

Oh yeah, just an FYI, you know males can still produce sperm for a while after they've been neutered, right? I've heard 30 days.

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Noriko525
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Postby Noriko525 » Sat Jul 05, 2008 6:47 pm

JORSHER, you are awesome :thumbsup: Great posts.

Being only 24 myself, I can vividly remember being 19 and now, 5 years later I am PROUD to say that I'm not the same person that I was then. I too am still paying for the mistakes I made at 19, some of them I will carry around my whole life.

Philicia, if you would like to consider doing a spay abort (which would be the RESPONSIBLE option to consider) I will help you find someone to do it for a good price. I am only about 20 min from Seattle and would be happy to help you.

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suzi
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Postby suzi » Sat Jul 05, 2008 6:52 pm

bahamutt99 wrote:When I was a teenager breeding dogs, I knew EXACTLY what I was doing, and nobody could convince me otherwise. I knew my dog would make pretty puppies with the rednose around the corner, and I was totally right. They were beautiful pups. Everybody wanted them. We placed all of those pups in "good homes." I knew I had been right all along.

It took a few years for the reality to sink in. Those pups dropped like flies.

Milo: Shot by police
Velvet: Survived Corona (we paid for treatment), only to be hit by car
Runt pup from 1st litter: Fading puppy syndrome
Mookie: Still alive and well
Tex: Probably a junkyard dog, if he's still alive
Cooter & Metalhead: Unstable manbiters, had to be PTS
Demon: Given away because owner got tired of fence jumping
Morticia: Survived Parvo (we paid for treatment), given away with Demon
Otis: Last heard, was healthy, but causing problems by fence-fighting with landlord's dog
Forrest: Stolen
Pookie: Sold way too young, who knows what happened to her
Chiquita (mom dog): dumped in pound with her mates after we placed her with the stud owner when she started fighting with her year-old offspring we kept
Chase and Thug (stud dogs): dumped in pound because stud owner was tired of dealing with the fleas

Those are just the ones I can remember off the top of my head. It took years for me to realize what I'd been a party to, but believe me, it weighs heavy on my conscience now. Did you know that the average dog is either dead or dumped in a shelter by the age of 4? I can't remember where I read that, but in light of my experience, its probably true.

Oh yeah, just an FYI, you know males can still produce sperm for a while after they've been neutered, right? I've heard 30 days.


Excellent post Bahamutt99.

It takes an extremely large amount of integrity to admit to past mistakes such as yours (no offense, I was young once to and made many heartbreaking choices),,,,by doing so,,,you have provided an education to those who will pay heed,,,and stop maybe one more breeding that will end in so much sorrow,,,,,down the road if not right away.

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Jorsher
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Postby Jorsher » Sat Jul 05, 2008 7:26 pm

Noriko525 wrote:JORSHER, you are awesome :thumbsup: Great posts.

Being only 24 myself, I can vividly remember being 19 and now, 5 years later I am PROUD to say that I'm not the same person that I was then. I too am still paying for the mistakes I made at 19, some of them I will carry around my whole life.


lol Thanks

I'll be 24 this year so I'm not exactly "aged and matured" but I've lived long enough to see that I didn't know half as much as I thought I did when I was younger. I ruined my credit, ruined my driving record, and ruined my GPA during the 18-20 years because I *thought* I knew what I was doing and didn't listen to anything the older folks said because "I'm 20 and am more mature/responsible than others my age, I know what I'm doing."

Well, I was wrong. So, I'll be moving in with a friend temporarily to finish paying off my debts and finally be able to get into a home and back into college. It's an eye opener when you see people younger than you graduating and you realize you should be making MUCH more than you're making now, and it would have been possible if you accepted the advice of the more experienced.

Oh well, live and learn. I hope you take the advice instead of learning the hard way Philicia.

Thanks bahamutt. Hearing the experience of others helps to put some validity and realism into what everyone is trying to say :)

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Beowulf
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Postby Beowulf » Sat Jul 05, 2008 7:33 pm

Jorsher wrote:Thanks bahamutt. Hearing the experience of others helps to put some validity and realism into what everyone is trying to say :)

I agree. Helps put it all into perspective.

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BrokenAquarian
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Postby BrokenAquarian » Sat Jul 05, 2008 8:03 pm

philicia wrote:

like i said in my last post i would never give up my dogs to a shelter. i have good homes lined up for them.


Do you have good homes lined up for at least 10 dogs?
What happens if the people you give them to decide they don't want them - or something comes up to where they cannot keep the dog anymore?
These people will give them away to other people, or to a shelter/pound. There's nothing you can do about it either, unless you have them sign contracts when they pick up the pups.

You have to make sure that the people don't live in apartments where there are restrictions on pet size and breed(most do) People who are renting in houses should give you the number to their landlord - to make sure it is ok with them to have this breed on their property.

Otherwise, the dogs will be homeless. Avoiding it by not telling the landlord ALWAYS blows up sooner or later. You can't have a dog that size without anyone finding out. Even if the people say "Oh, the landlord won't care" Don't take that as an acceptable answer - demand to talk to the landlord and/or see the lease agreement.

philicia wrote:i am financially stable. i don't live with my parents if thats what you all think.

and if it helps i will post up pictures of them (the pups) with their new homes. when they are out. that wont be for a while though.



Ok :)
But, do you have enough money to spay and neuter 10 puppies?(common litter size for an APBT)
Puppies that have to be kept together AND with their mother until 8-10 weeks of age.

Most people try to get rid of the pups as soon as possible because they become messy and NOISY :)
They usually get rid of them at 4-6 weeks. This is not good.


I really hope you know what you're getting yourself into and are willing to keep tabs on ALL of the puppies once they come into the world - that includes being able to take them back(or get them out of a bad situation) if something happens. Not just 2 or 3 - the whole litter.

Good luck.

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Beowulf
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Postby Beowulf » Sat Jul 05, 2008 8:22 pm

BrokenAquarian wrote:These people will give them away to other people, or to a shelter/pound. There's nothing you can do about it either, unless you have them sign contracts when they pick up the pups.
And still, even if you have a contract and one of them doesn't obey it you will have to hire an attorney to enforce the contract.

BrokenAquarian wrote:[But, do you have enough money to spay and neuter 10 puppies?(common litter size for an APBT)
And it could be considerably more. My first two dogs, before I knew better, both came from a BYB and both came from litters of 18.

Please consider doing a spay/abort. There are too many homeless pit bulls (and dogs in general) as it is.


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