interesting visit to new vet

Talk about diets, exercise, and disease.
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damienApbt
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Postby damienApbt » Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:53 am

well olive is doing ok on the lamb mix. But Rod's feet licking has gotten worse, his paws are turning red. This sucks. Rod did well on the beef formula but had his butt issues much too often.

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blkngldbabe
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Postby blkngldbabe » Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:05 am

DO you have Air conditioning? I noticed Herbie's exacerbations were worse when it was a little more on the humid side and Steeler used to have a stripe on her tum tum that looked like a lick issue but wasn't. Once we had the A/C installed about 2 months back they've improved thoroughly. Her stripe is gone completely (she never really had allergy issues) and Herbie with the aid of some Prednisone is doing heads and tails better than he was at this stage last season. He has almost ALL of his fur back and his paws are spotless. Not that this is your issue at all, but I thought it may give you some insight to other sources. Good luck!

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damienApbt
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Postby damienApbt » Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:52 pm

no we dont have ac. Its not really humid at all here. I can't figure it out. He doesn't leave his paws alone. I give them benadryl each day but that only helps with the bumpy dry skin. I still have yet to figure out this foot licking issue.

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Postby artemiss » Thu Jul 31, 2008 5:23 pm

I had a nightmare trying to find a food I could feed Kira that didn't rash her up.
As little as I wanted to, I fed her prescription (read: pricey!!) Royal Canin Venison and Potato for about a year before finding something else that worked..Taste of the Wild Pacific Stream formula (salmon/fish and potato)

Many of the "allergy" formulas had oils like flax and sunflower, which didn't cause the huge hives like her primary allergen, poultry, but resulted in foot and butt-licking and yeast infections...misleading me to think she COULDN"T have things like salmon.

It wasn't until Natural balance re-released their venison formula that I realized it HAD to be the oil..it was almost identical to what she was eating save that the royal canin had canola oil, whereas the natural balance had flax oil.

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Postby damienApbt » Thu Jul 31, 2008 5:58 pm

As I said before I use NV raw diets. They do use salmon oil and olive oil, in all the diets, except organic chix. However rod did not have any problems on the beef except for an anal gland issue. When he was on organic chix and now lamb.. his foot licking has exploded.

eta: that "as I said before" sounds snobby. lol . sorry

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artemiss
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Postby artemiss » Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:23 pm

damienApbt wrote:As I said before I use NV raw diets. They do use salmon oil and olive oil, in all the diets, except organic chix. However rod did not have any problems on the beef except for an anal gland issue. When he was on organic chix and now lamb.. his foot licking has exploded.

eta: that "as I said before" sounds snobby. lol . sorry



Is okay, I did see what you were feeding, and that stuff, by it's vary nature is NOT a true limited ingredient food. (It even says it in the name..VARIETY, lol ) :)

I would think if you were going to do raw AND a food trial, you'd likely have to get a recipe somewhere and make your own. I know everyone thinks the sun rises and sets on that stuff (NV), but neither of my "sensitve" mutts (Kira's skin and Ezri's tummy) did well on it any of it at all. :dunno: Sometimes you have to go with what works for the dog, not what you WANT to work.

The ingredients of the organic chicken:
Organic Chicken, Raw Ground Organic Chicken Bone, Organic Chicken Liver, Organic Chicken Heart, Organic Chicken Eggs, Organic Bok Choy, Organic Carrots, Organic Apples, Organic Pears, Organic Persimmons, Organic Flaxseed Oil, Organic Yogurt (Organic Grade A Pasteurized Milk, Organic Nonfat Milk, Fructan, Pectin, Live and Active Yogurt Cultures: Lactobacillus acidophilus, Bifidobacterium lactis, Streptococcus thermophilus, Lactobacillus bulgaricus, Lactobacillus casei), Organic Alfalfa Sprouts, Organic Parsley, Organic Blueberries


the lamb:
INGREDIENTS: Lamb, Lamb Liver, Raw Ground Lamb Bone, Lamb Heart, Lamb Kidney, Apples, Carrots, Butternut Squash, Ground Flaxseed, Chicken Eggs, Broccoli, Lettuce, Spinach, Dried Kelp, Apple Cider Vinegar, Parsley, Honey, Salmon Oil, Olive Oil, Blueberries, Alfalfa Sprouts, Persimmons, Duck Eggs, Pheasant Eggs, Quail Eggs, Inulin, Rosemary, Sage, Clove

I see several things that could be problems:
Chicken, lamb, eggs, flaxseed oil, milk (in the form of yogurt) and possibly any one of 11 vegetables. (though much less likely than the lamb, chicken, milk or eggs)

That problem is, none of these foods will give you a true "food trial", as was mentioned before. Those suck..but finally a year later I have a fairly good idea what I can and can't give, and when to get out the benadryl.

And furthermore, if your dog is like mine and can't do anything poultry, including eggs, (or flaxseed oil) there ISN'T a "flavor" that will work.

(And I am not trying to sound snobby either..just speaking from my personal experience :) )


On the other hand, if they did well on the beef, save the anal glands, did you try adding beet pulp or pumpkin to "bulk up" the poo and help express them?

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damienApbt
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Postby damienApbt » Fri Aug 01, 2008 1:27 am

the vet did mention pumpkin. Thats a good idea. I'll switch them back to the beef and give the pumpkin a try.
Do you think canned pumpkin would do the trick, or is there a better way?
Also would just a table spoon be good?

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Postby Kingsgurl » Fri Aug 01, 2008 1:40 am

Canned pumpkin, it's easiest and works great. :thumbsup: I have heard if you add too much, it has the opposite effect, but haven't witnessed this first hand. I'm bad and just blop it in, about a tablespoon. If you are giving it everyday, it might be even less. I think MsYvette might know.

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Postby Maryellen » Fri Aug 01, 2008 6:34 am

instead of NV raw, can you do another kind? like omas pride or bravo or any of the other premade? NV has alot of added stuff, while omas and bravo are just meat or meat and veggies. or what about regular raw meat from the supermarket? just do raw meat and nothing else, no salmon oil, no kelp, nothing but raw meat?

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Postby blkngldbabe » Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:22 am

I had to go grain free for Herbie's foot issues to dissapate. THat and wipe down the tootsies with baby wipes after he frollicks in the yard. IT does sound like an allergy though. Has is just happened in the summer time or have you seen any of these symptoms when the fun seasonal itchies are not around?

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Postby MikeZev » Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:51 pm

sicily gets the red belly and chest sometimes too but far less frequently since i switched her to Canidae single protein. i give her some benadryl when it flares up (maybe once every 6 weeks or so).

mydogroxy's dog does the foot licking constantly too. she gets an allergy shot once a month that seemes to help a bit.

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Postby pitgrrl » Fri Aug 01, 2008 2:51 pm

artemiss wrote:
I see several things that could be problems:
Chicken, lamb, eggs, flaxseed oil, milk (in the form of yogurt) and possibly any one of 11 vegetables. (though much less likely than the lamb, chicken, milk or eggs)

That problem is, none of these foods will give you a true "food trial", as was mentioned before. Those suck..but finally a year later I have a fairly good idea what I can and can't give, and when to get out the benadryl.


But, unless I'm misunderstanding, he wasn't having any allergy symptoms on the beef, which contains many of the same "extras", like fish oil, yogurt, eggs, etc. So would that rule those things out?

Can you get Urban Carnivore raw food in the U.S.? They have whole carcass (with nothing else) patties. I think http://www.primalpetfoods.com/ has similar single animal patties too though (and great packaging! lol )

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Postby damienApbt » Sat Aug 02, 2008 5:10 pm

those 100% Beef (etc) grinds are new. I 'll have to look into them again. I was feeding the chubs before. But they all say
Intended for Supplemental Feeding (Not a Complete Diet)


thats why I kept with NV, because it was more complete. Is it enough just to have the beef grind?

http://www.primalpetfoods.com/canine/gr ... neBeef.htm

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Postby mr. beefy » Sat Aug 02, 2008 5:43 pm

pitgrrl wrote: I think http://www.primalpetfoods.com/ has similar single animal patties too though (and great packaging! lol )


A girl I know was dating the founder for a while and her dogs looked great. She had Xolos and those things make pittie skin issues look like a breeze! Hate to think what happened when they broke up roflmao

I've been through the whole gamut with my guy... new foods, benadryl, cephalexin, the runs, the inflamed, red scabby skin, the oils, the supps, steroids, homeopathic scrips... yeah.

Our solution (and what makes me the laziest raw feeder ever): buy 1 whole 4 lb chicken, cut it up, feed over 4 days. Give fresh factors when convenient, like my apple core, some of the broccoli we cooked for dinner, an egg when the carton's about to go bad, etc. Since I started this routine we've had no issues, poops look great, skin is clear, feet a normal color, coat shiny, condition great. If I feed beef or pork he gets so gassy his little stomach swells up and he can clear a room so chicken it is.

It's all about finding out what works for each dog and sticking two it. No two dogs are alike.

Good luck!

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Postby damienApbt » Sun Aug 03, 2008 11:28 am

I think Rod imight be allergic to the pumpkin. We had a bunch of people over last night, with snacks, so he may have eaten something then. But yesterday after he ate with the pumpkin, he broke out in hives. Although I didn't feed it to him last night or this morning, and it looks like he got bite by a zillion mesquitos over night. What a pain. I'll try today without the pumpkin. Wait for the lumps to go away than try the pumpkin again.
Sorry if this doesn't make any sense. I'm a wee bit hung over.


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