Hind end awareness - I'm just not getting it

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randomroads
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Hind end awareness - I'm just not getting it

Postby randomroads » Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:20 pm

I've watched several videos and here's what I've done.

I've put a very large book about 2 inches thick on the floor to give my dog a definite 'pad' to see, feel, and step on. I clicker trained her to put her front feet on the book. I can't figure out how to get her to put her back feet on the book. I can't figure out how to get her to move her back feet while her front feet are still on the book. I'm thinking I need to find a trainer to show me in person but I'm reluctant to pay for someone to show me this one small thing that would probably take about 10 minutes for me to learn.

Does anyone have advice? It's not her, it's me. I just can't figure it out!

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Leslie H
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Re: Hind end awareness - I'm just not getting it

Postby Leslie H » Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:26 pm

What if you reward for much smaller approximations, like clicking for a hind end weight shift towards the book?


randomroads
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Re: Hind end awareness - I'm just not getting it

Postby randomroads » Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:14 pm

I feel like I keep getting stuck whenever I'm rewarding super tiny movements. She doesn't seem to be putting them together no matter how I try to get her to realize it. Luring works but only so much and she has problems transitioning from lure to doing it on her own. Once we get stuck she just stands there and stares at me because she's confused. I keep telling myself this is my problem and my dog really isn't stupid... I really hope I'm right lol

BTW thanks for the videos! I haven't seen either of them so I'll watch them in depth when I get home.

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MarMar
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Re: Hind end awareness - I'm just not getting it

Postby MarMar » Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:01 pm

You may also want to start with something larger for her hind feet to come into contact with. I've been working with the lid of a large tupperware bin with a towel on it.

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sickmonkey
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Re: Hind end awareness - I'm just not getting it

Postby sickmonkey » Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:07 pm

You might teach her a cue for picking up her feet, almost like a horse. Once you have some control of her picking up and putting down her feet, you can teach her to target them to objects more easily.

Additionally, you might start using a big sheet of paper or something as the target she's supposed to stand on. Then you can just snip it smaller and smaller until it's the size you want and she knows what she's used to do.

randomroads
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Re: Hind end awareness - I'm just not getting it

Postby randomroads » Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:23 pm

These are good ideas. I've got a piece of poster paper that's pretty big and its' easy to step on without even trying.

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Red
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Re: Hind end awareness - I'm just not getting it

Postby Red » Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:11 am

randomroads wrote: I keep telling myself this is my problem and my dog really isn't stupid... I really hope I'm right lol


That would be quite right. Luring to get over some initial difficulties can be done without issues, but when luring is done in an incorrect way the dog is not actually operant and cannot think on his/her own, in term of movements (in this case).

Can you take a video of what you are doing? How much are you clicking in a minute, on average?

Below is an old video of one of my dogs learning to back up into a storage box. That is more difficult than a book, and working on lower items was done before. I still reward small approximations, such as lifting one paw (I do not reward backing up/turning rear into item in the video, was done before), no matter where it ends on the box. The dog knows the game and I prefer free shaping because the dog has to figure things depending on the relationship this-movement=reinforcement.


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Bambina23
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Re: Hind end awareness - I'm just not getting it

Postby Bambina23 » Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:09 pm

That's Awesome RED!! Thank you for asking this question RR, i too have been having trouble. I definitely think I am doing it wrong and that my luring isn't making it any better. ugh.

Will me trying to lure her incorrectly ruin what i am trying to teach? Or will it just take longer for her to get it right? OR do you think that i should give her a break on this and start fresh in a few weeks?

** disclaimer** i sound really scatterbrained and neurotic but i'm really not that bad..

randomroads
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Re: Hind end awareness - I'm just not getting it

Postby randomroads » Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:33 pm

I say the word Yes to mark the behavior I want probably 30 times a minute. I can't get video because I don't have anyone help me. Thanks for the video. I haven't done anything with her in a few days because of work, but will have lots of free time this weekend so we'll try again.

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Bambina23
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Re: Hind end awareness - I'm just not getting it

Postby Bambina23 » Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:30 am

i have managed to teach her how to back up , i don't quite think that counts because she still shuffles her back feet and the action is starting from her front feet. More practice is on the schedule


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