Cesar Millan

Tricks, obedience, behavior, and more.
slickvic
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Postby slickvic » Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:00 pm

well it is clear that you havent either missy, i have plenty of evidence to support my statement,
she is here to share her wisdom and experience with those of us with less.
yes that is ideal, yet, far from the reality.
why dont you fight your own battles
who are you to assume she has not taken a class? i dont assume, i know, and she knows. if i havent been shown hostility i woudnt have said what i have said
Deniselynn, logic comes into play with everything, education doesnt mean chocolate if you are a moron who cant apply it.

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MikeInTacoma
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Postby MikeInTacoma » Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:11 am

slickvic wrote:well it is clear that you havent either missy, i have plenty of evidence to support my statement,
she is here to share her wisdom and experience with those of us with less.
yes that is ideal, yet, far from the reality.
why dont you fight your own battles
who are you to assume she has not taken a class? i dont assume, i know, and she knows. if i havent been shown hostility i woudnt have said what i have said
Deniselynn, logic comes into play with everything, education doesnt mean chocolate if you are a moron who cant apply it.

First of all, welcome Slick. Your understanding of Cesar Millan and his show (the topic of this thread) has evolved, and that is A Good Thing.

Second, enough with the name-calling, kthx. I understand you're (from my perspective of, egad, 45 years) young and energetic; but enough already. We are not the enemy, though many of us are just as passionate and, ah, diplomatic as you. It interferes with communication.

Red doesn't need me to defend her. But what the heck, it's more fun than finishing my spreadsheet (O Procrastination, you nasty devil you...). I'll just observe that I've learned more useful stuff from her posts here (including book and DVD recommendations) than I have from dozen-odd hours I spent watching the Dog Whisperer. (I guess this is not surprising, since the show is entertainment, as has been pointed out repeatedly.) Given that Red's a busy student, helping people with their problematic dogs IRL as well as on the internet, and given that English is not her native tongue, I cut her some slack for the occasional typographical malapropism and disinterest in pussyfooting around. I understand why she hates the show -- it perpetuates outdated misinformation. Imagine you are halfway through medical school, and there's a popular "reality" television show where the star doctor seems to be curing patients with techniques that are no longer used, because they have been shown to be at least as dangerous as they are effective. Sure, the techniques work sometimes; but the doctors who read the NEJM and JAMA mostly don't use them anymore, because they're just not worth the risk and better alternatives are available. But this charming quack is talking about using diethylstilbestrol to prevent miscarriages, and you're screaming at the TV that DES actually causes miscarriages, so much so that it was used as a "morning after" pill until the problems with birth defects and cancer in children became obvious; and you're screaming that the medical journals began recommending against prescribing DES three decades ago... Then, a month after the show, you're doing your shift in the clinic and a pregnant woman walks in, requesting DES because she doesn't want to have another miscarriage, and she saw Dr. Accent's recommendation on that show, you know, The Body Whisperer... I think that's more or less the position Red is in. Not being in metaphorical medical school myself, I view it with more tolerance. (Yes, I know that DES is no longer prescribed or generally available in the U.S.; I'm just using it as an example, because Cesar Millan reminds me of that bozo in Montana who was prescribing DES to prevent miscarriages as late as the mid-1970s.) As far as illogic -- I don't know Red's, or your, formal training in logic; and my own was a long time ago, and incomplete at that. But I think I have the basics down. I don't remember any blatant logical errors, and I'm not interested in questing back through the thread to find them (reading through it the first time was enough for me); though there was some noticeably intemperate rhetoric. Such is life.

Third, you earlier asked for examples of Mr. Millan inappropriately causing dogs to exhibit body language communicating distress. I'm sorry, I'm unable because I don't watch the show (or any t.v.) very often any more -- I have pet dogs for entertainment now -- and my understanding of dogs, their behaviors, and their body language has changed a LOT in the past two years. And the show comes on mostly when I'm at work. At one point, I had planned to get the DVDs of the show, and watch through them with my GF. That plan is on indefinite hold since I feel I have more productive uses for my time (like reading Brenda Aloff's book on aggressive dogs), at the moment. I remember vaguely a few episodes where something I saw or heard just didn't sit right with me -- usually causing a tiff with the GF, since she's a CM fan -- but the only episode I remember clearly is the one with the gay guys and their small yappy spoiled dog, where they told Cesar they didn't take the dog for a walk because "Hello, there's a car..." roflmao

I don't think I saw the episode with the Great Dane and the floor, but I dealt with a similar issue, years before I heard of positive reinforcement, completely differently. I was working as a carriage driver, and the horse I was assigned had a serious fear of walking across the steel plates that are used to temporarily cover holes in the street during construction projects. This was a problem because, rather than walk across the plates, Swede (the horse) would sidestep to the left, into the next lane of traffic. Serious safety issue. Thing was, he was a bit clumsy, and his steel shoes would slip on the steel plate (especially in wet weather), which freaked him out. We tried forcing him to go straight with whip-taps to the rump (just to signal -- no pain involved) and pulling on the bit (probably some pain or discomfort, there; such is life); made the problem worse. We tried having him stand still on the plates to "get used to it" (which I now understand was probably an example of 'flooding," a bad thing that can induce learned helplessness) -- made the problem even worse. A more experienced driver and I decided to try coaxing him across with bits of carrot, to the derision of some of the veterans. It worked, better and quicker than we expected. After a few weeks of that, he was walking across the steel plates -- not with confidence, but in a straight line, and responding to commands rather than bolting out into traffic in a panic. :dunno: Sometimes I wish I was as smart as a horse... It took me way too long to generalize what I should have learned from that sequence of events.

But I digress. Point is, I have to apologize -- I can't readily point at a piece of DW video as an example of CM making things worse instead of better. So feel free to discount my earlier about seeing dogs' body language that shows they hate what CM is putting them through. Further, I apologize for the late response; was busy all weekend.

Fourth, conflict on internet forums (fora? oh never mind) like PBF is just a fact of life. PBF is, in my observation, rather more civil than most forums -- undoubtedly thanks to the moderators, in large part. Don't let it get you down.

Anyhow, I'm impressed that you read enough of this thread to modify your opinions. Such honest open-mindedness is an unfortunately rare trait. :thumbsup:

slickvic
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Postby slickvic » Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:17 pm

Thank you for your reply. The name calling is out of line, and i will try to stop. However, you dont have to call someone a name to display attitude, and i have recieved nothing but that from red. If you look at my very first post, i tried to give someone advise about walking a dog.
I know now there are other ways, but again it was my first post, and my intentions were to help, and not only red, but several others ripped my post apart, not in a nice informative way, but in classless haste, this is why i come off so bitter.
However, you are right, this is a forum and disagreements are to be expected.

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Red
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Postby Red » Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:37 pm

slickvic wrote:However, you dont have to call someone a name to display attitude, and i have recieved nothing but that from red. If you look at my very first post, i tried to give someone advise about walking a dog.
I know now there are other ways, but again it was my first post, and my intentions were to help, and not only red, but several others ripped my post apart, not in a nice informative way, but in classless haste, this is why i come off so bitter.


This is becoming rather ridiculous but on that post you were addressed by a moderator as well and I will link it so that there is no doubt about the victim you try to pass for:

http://www.pitbullforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=77551&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30

Apparently I wasn't the one to actually find your post problematic and I did not use name calling whatsoever in my reply to you.
Now, if you quit the whining, which has no place considering the insults you have used in this thread, and want to talk about training and behavior approaches by all means do so.The rest won't be any farther addresses by me because it is not worth my time.

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Postby BabyReba » Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:03 pm

slickvic, you'll have to do more than just try not to name-call--please avoid doing it, period.

one thing that is clearly written in the rules is that name calling is not tolerated here.

and everyone on this thread, please try to address your fellow posters respectfully, even if they don't agree with you. if you're feeling angry or annoyed, take a few minutes and think about how your words are coming across before you post.

thank you.

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MikeInTacoma
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Postby MikeInTacoma » Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:19 pm

I find myself uninterested in rehashing an old thread about the use of head collars in a thread about The Dog Whisperer ™ -- uness there's a DW show where Cesar Millan uses or discusses head collars...

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Otis
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Postby Otis » Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:49 pm

slickvic wrote:"Honestly, to call these people not helpful is ridiculous. I've personally talked to Red on the phone and she helped me immensely"
I know a black man who gunned down a little old lady for 10 dollars, is it safe for me to make the general claim, black people are ignorant murders? Buddy, your logic ridiculous
[

I'd hate to derail the thread more then it already has been, as it will probably be closed soon if this continues. I'm not quiet sure I understand your logic here either. My claim was that, unlike CM, people on this forum will take time out of their day to help you when you have a problem. They offer many different view points and help combat your dogs individual problems, and find a method that works for your individual dog. And if you are going to continue to use condescending names, I am a "missy" not a "buddy."

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Otis
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Postby Otis » Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:02 pm

I tripped my self up on this one, obviously CM takes time out of his day to help people with their dogs. Our chances of getting on the show are slim to none, and as obviously expressed his methods can be dangerous and ineffective to implement yourself. This forum is made up of many caring, wonderful and intelligent people who work hard to tackle the individual problems our dogs have.

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MikeInTacoma
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Postby MikeInTacoma » Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:13 pm

Otis wrote:I tripped my self up on this one, obviously CM takes time out of his day to help people with their dogs. Our chances of getting on the show are slim to none, and as obviously expressed his methods can be dangerous and ineffective to implement yourself. This forum is made up of many caring, wonderful and intelligent people who work hard to tackle the individual problems our dogs have.

Chances of getting on the show may not be so bad, if you live in SoCal and have decent video of your dog displaying problematic behavior. His website had an announcement some weeks ago, seeking dogs to be trai... uh, rehabilitated for the show. You had to submit video of the dog behaving undesirably. I imagine they have enough dogs for the upcoming season by now; but if he's doing casting calls, then people probably have a chance of getting their dog on the show each year, if the dog's behavior is sufficiently dramatic.

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Postby Stormi » Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:23 pm

wegobad wrote:Chances of getting on the show may not be so bad, if you live in SoCal and have decent video of your dog displaying problematic behavior. His website had an announcement some weeks ago, seeking dogs to be trai... uh, rehabilitated for the show. You had to submit video of the dog behaving undesirably. I imagine they have enough dogs for the upcoming season by now; but if he's doing casting calls, then people probably have a chance of getting their dog on the show each year, if the dog's behavior is sufficiently dramatic.


Ohh, yay! Let's have people purposely place their anxious, stressed, and emotionally upset dogs in scenarios that will force a reaction and then ask them to video tape it. Brilliant!

:yucky:

slickvic
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Postby slickvic » Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:40 pm

otis, i will refrain from name calling to you or anyone with respect to the moderator who thankfully intervened. Though my logic was.... You said it is silly to say people on the site arent helpfull, and your proof was an example of one person who is helpfull. Though, my comment was outlandish, it uses the exact same logic, judgement based on a spec of the population. This doesnt mean that more than one person isnt helpfull, but your statement didnt offer any kind of proof to your case

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MikeInTacoma
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Postby MikeInTacoma » Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:46 am

Stormi wrote:
wegobad wrote:Chances of getting on the show may not be so bad, if you live in SoCal and have decent video of your dog displaying problematic behavior. His website had an announcement some weeks ago, seeking dogs to be trai... uh, rehabilitated for the show. You had to submit video of the dog behaving undesirably. I imagine they have enough dogs for the upcoming season by now; but if he's doing casting calls, then people probably have a chance of getting their dog on the show each year, if the dog's behavior is sufficiently dramatic.


Ohh, yay! Let's have people purposely place their anxious, stressed, and emotionally upset dogs in scenarios that will force a reaction and then ask them to video tape it. Brilliant!

:yucky:

Hmm.... I guess they're taking applications for next season already.

CM Inc. / Dog Whisperer wrote:Season 5 of Dog Whisperer is currently taking submissions from selected cities across the United States. Learn more!

http://www.cesarmillaninc.com/dogwhispe ... ssions.php

Mail in Your Video, or Meet the Producers at a Live Audition!

We would like you to capture at least three instances of your dog’s bad behavior. Please do not put yourself or your dog in danger while trying to film the behavior.

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Red
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Postby Red » Wed Jan 21, 2009 3:14 pm

roflmao roflmao roflmao

Last edited by MikeInTacoma on Tue Sep 15, 2009 6:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: update embedded video code

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The Teflon Don
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Postby The Teflon Don » Wed Jan 21, 2009 3:24 pm

I actually enjoy CM and his show, but that was DAMN funny RED! lol

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Deniselynn
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Postby Deniselynn » Wed Jan 21, 2009 3:45 pm

I wish I can view videos at work! :po:


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