Cesar Millan

Tricks, obedience, behavior, and more.
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lilangel
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Re: Cesar Millan

Postby lilangel » Thu Sep 15, 2011 11:55 am

Briggs wrote:I've watched some episodes where I think "Alright, he handled that dog reasonably well." and others where I am hitting my head wondering WHY he is setting the dog up to fail and react that way. All I really have to say about him is I would rather eat Bandit than let him hold his lead as my dog has way too soft of a temperment for his handling and if he did that "TSSST" thing where he side kicks the dog in the rump to "snap him out of it" my dog would fly about 18 feet in the air and pee everywhere. I really have no idea why he goes about it that way. What ever happened to teaching a dog a foundation and building on that?

I don't throw my son into a lake before he has learned to swim in shallow water. Why would I take my dog into a situation I know he isn't able to handle intentionally due to his lack of training?



I would actually love to see him try that kicking thing on a civil, defensive, working dog with real aggression. He is basically a bully who likes to pick on dogs that he either has already subdued through subterfuge or force or knows he can manhandle. Just like most working dog people, sorry just my opinion of 99% of those yahoos. Give them a defensive dog with real aggression, not their imaginary version of "aggression", (since all their working dogs are fire breathing monsters, whatever 8l ) and they look like they are tip toing around the training and scared to death of the dog... and they should be scared with the kind of bs they refer to as training. :angel:

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Re: Cesar Millan

Postby merriterrier » Sun Sep 18, 2011 1:32 pm

The only thing Cesar gets right is the "exercise, discipline, affection" principle. Of course, I interpret "discipline" as structure, setting limits, positive training and consistency (NOT physical discipline). I have based my relationship(s) with dogs on that premise for years and it works beautifully.

Otherwise, the man is a crack pot. I'm sorry he is not shunned by the dog community, his antics are damaging to dogs and damaging to owners who attempt to follow his advice. Worse still are trainers who endeavor to follow in his footsteps.

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Re: Cesar Millan

Postby AllisonPitbullLvr » Sun Sep 18, 2011 6:09 pm

merriterrier wrote:The only thing Cesar gets right is the "exercise, discipline, affection" principle. Of course, I interpret "discipline" as structure, setting limits, positive training and consistency (NOT physical discipline). I have based my relationship(s) with dogs on that premise for years and it works beautifully.

Otherwise, the man is a crack pot. I'm sorry he is not shunned by the dog community, his antics are damaging to dogs and damaging to owners who attempt to follow his advice. Worse still are trainers who endeavor to follow in his footsteps.

:goodpost:

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Re: Cesar Millan

Postby msleo247 » Sun Sep 18, 2011 8:45 pm

AllisonPibbleLvr wrote:
merriterrier wrote:The only thing Cesar gets right is the "exercise, discipline, affection" principle. Of course, I interpret "discipline" as structure, setting limits, positive training and consistency (NOT physical discipline). I have based my relationship(s) with dogs on that premise for years and it works beautifully.

Otherwise, the man is a crack pot. I'm sorry he is not shunned by the dog community, his antics are damaging to dogs and damaging to owners who attempt to follow his advice. Worse still are trainers who endeavor to follow in his footsteps.

:goodpost:


I think he also gets it correct when he talks about how dogs are pack animals. I tell my clients regularly that if a dog isn't sure where they are in the hierarchy, they'll put themselves some place, which is generally above YOU ;) But I HATE how so many people talk about him like he's the big man upstairs :po:

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Re: Cesar Millan

Postby Stormi » Sun Sep 18, 2011 9:13 pm

msleo247 wrote: I tell my clients regularly that if a dog isn't sure where they are in the hierarchy, they'll put themselves some place, which is generally above YOU ;)


Actually, no. Dogs aren't entirely "pack animals", they're scavangers. And no, humans are not part of the canine hierarchy, which in itself is a very complex and fluid concept of social interactions involving primarily resources. Not some ficticious "rank" in a linear system.

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Re: Cesar Millan

Postby lilangel » Sun Sep 18, 2011 10:10 pm

Stormi wrote:
msleo247 wrote: I tell my clients regularly that if a dog isn't sure where they are in the hierarchy, they'll put themselves some place, which is generally above YOU ;)


Actually, no. Dogs aren't entirely "pack animals", they're scavangers. And no, humans are not part of the canine hierarchy, which in itself is a very complex and fluid concept of social interactions involving primarily resources. Not some ficticious "rank" in a linear system.

:goodpost: stormi

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Re: Cesar Millan

Postby MarMar » Sun Sep 18, 2011 10:46 pm

Stormi wrote:
msleo247 wrote: I tell my clients regularly that if a dog isn't sure where they are in the hierarchy, they'll put themselves some place, which is generally above YOU ;)


Actually, no. Dogs aren't entirely "pack animals", they're scavangers. And no, humans are not part of the canine hierarchy, which in itself is a very complex and fluid concept of social interactions involving primarily resources. Not some ficticious "rank" in a linear system.

:goodpost:

There is plenty of reliable evidence that backs this up.

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nic
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Re: Cesar Millan

Postby nic » Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:37 am

I don't think dogs are strictly pack animals,social animals yes,but not pack.
This is the definition of pack i ws taught....
a group of animals working together as a unit to gain access to a resource or mate.I dont think many dogs fall into that.

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Re: Cesar Millan

Postby Sarah » Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:37 am

lilangel wrote:I would actually love to see him try that kicking thing on a civil, defensive, working dog with real aggression. He is basically a bully who likes to pick on dogs that he either has already subdued through subterfuge or force or knows he can manhandle. Just like most working dog people, sorry just my opinion of 99% of those yahoos. Give them a defensive dog with real aggression, not their imaginary version of "aggression", (since all their working dogs are fire breathing monsters, whatever 8l ) and they look like they are tip toing around the training and scared to death of the dog... and they should be scared with the kind of bs they refer to as training. :angel:


Well, this dog seems pretty serious about trying to bite him. Not that I blame the dog, I'm just sorry it doesn't succeed. That kind of stupidity deserves to get bitten.


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Re: Cesar Millan

Postby AllisonPitbullLvr » Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:09 pm

Stormi wrote:
msleo247 wrote: I tell my clients regularly that if a dog isn't sure where they are in the hierarchy, they'll put themselves some place, which is generally above YOU ;)


Actually, no. Dogs aren't entirely "pack animals", they're scavangers. And no, humans are not part of the canine hierarchy, which in itself is a very complex and fluid concept of social interactions involving primarily resources. Not some ficticious "rank" in a linear system.

:goodpost:

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Re: Cesar Millan

Postby Celesteandthebullies » Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:34 pm

Sarah wrote:
lilangel wrote:I would actually love to see him try that kicking thing on a civil, defensive, working dog with real aggression. He is basically a bully who likes to pick on dogs that he either has already subdued through subterfuge or force or knows he can manhandle. Just like most working dog people, sorry just my opinion of 99% of those yahoos. Give them a defensive dog with real aggression, not their imaginary version of "aggression", (since all their working dogs are fire breathing monsters, whatever 8l ) and they look like they are tip toing around the training and scared to death of the dog... and they should be scared with the kind of bs they refer to as training. :angel:


Well, this dog seems pretty serious about trying to bite him. Not that I blame the dog, I'm just sorry it doesn't succeed. That kind of stupidity deserves to get bitten.



God I hate that video, he redirects onto Cesar right after Cesar kicks him(two times), and he continues to apply pressure and the dog is trying to defend itself/get air. It just frustrates me that that poor dog had to go through that and it's viewed as okay by many.

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Re: Cesar Millan

Postby Brianna&Bubba. » Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:52 pm

Ive watched him a few times. I have to agree that his way of physically "correcting" the dog, seems wrong in so many ways.. And I cringe at the thought of people watching this on tv, thinking its all fine and dandy...

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Re: Cesar Millan

Postby Sarah » Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:57 pm

Celesteandthebullies wrote:God I hate that video, he redirects onto Cesar right after Cesar kicks him(two times), and he continues to apply pressure and the dog is trying to defend itself/get air. It just frustrates me that that poor dog had to go through that and it's viewed as okay by many.


It's a horribly disturbing video. What he does should be considered animal abuse.

For reference, here's a video of Dr. Sophia Yin working with another dog who also has aggression issues:



A much more effective and gentle method. But it doesn't make good TV like Cesar inciting a large wolf-like dog to attack him does. So CM's method is the one people are going to see.

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Re: Cesar Millan

Postby lilangel » Tue Sep 20, 2011 1:35 am

Yes, that video of Shadow is indeed disturbing. Poor dog. But I would call Shadow a 3 with 10 being the kind of dog I am talking about.

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Re: Cesar Millan

Postby Red » Tue Sep 27, 2011 1:37 pm

One can only hope that this is going to happen here too. No qualifications and "the recorded during a 45-minute ‘battle of wills’ – did not cure the animal of its behavioural problems."...who would have thought?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2042203/One-Show-axes-bully-dog-trainer-Jordan-Shelley-faces-RSPCA.html


"A dog trainer accused of bullying a Jack Russell on The One Show has been sacked by the programme and is being investigated by the RSPCA.

Jordan Shelley – billed as the BBC1 programme’s new ‘dog man’ – was the target of hundreds of complaints from animal lovers over his unorthodox techniques.

Mr Shelley, who has no formal qualifications, appeared on The One Show ten days ago in a new part of the programme in which he was supposed to help correct the behaviour of pets.
Jordan Shelley, who has no formal qualifications, was shown on The One Show using unorthodox techniques to train a dog

But viewers reacted with anger to the ‘dominance techniques’ he used on the terrier called Roxy.

He kicked the dog’s food bowl away and put his foot in its mouth to establish who was in charge.

Critics said the tactics – recorded during a 45-minute ‘battle of wills’ – did not cure the animal of its behavioural problems.




The BBC tried to defuse the row last week by showing Mr Shelley using kinder ‘reward-based’ methods – but this failed to quell the anger of animal lovers.

Many were mystified as to why the BBC let self-taught Mr Shelley offer advice to millions in the first place.

According to the BBC, Mr Shelley was suggested as a guest by TV director Brian Klein.
The trainer, who is to be investigated by the RSPCA, is shown kicking away the food bowl of the dog and putting his foot in the animal's mouth:

Image

But Companies House documents reveal that Mr Klein set up a company with Mr Shelley under the name Wobbly Dog Productions.

Mr Shelley, who is said to run an animal sanctuary, has refused to discuss the situation with the BBC.

It is understood The One Show is now toughening up the rules about recruiting experts.

Yesterday the RSPCA confirmed it was looking at the issue.

‘We are investigating several complaints received following an item on The One Show,' the charity said.

'However, because that investigation is now active we cannot comment further on this specific instance.

‘The RSPCA only recommends reward-based training methods.’

The BBC said last night that it was co-operating with the RSPCA and added: ‘There are currently no plans for this feature to return.’

Clarissa Baldwin, chairman of the Association of Dogs and Cats Homes wrote: ‘We fear that families watching the programme will try to emulate these barbaric tactics.’

The BBC said it was ‘engaging fully’ with the RSPCA.

‘It has been made clear on the show that viewers shouldn’t try any techniques from the programme without seeking the advice of a specialist,’ a spokesman said.

‘The One Show has thanked viewers for their comments which were taken very seriously.’

The BBC said the show had featured ‘various differing opinions plus advice from The One Show’s vet’.

Many people were perplexed that after his appearance on the show that Mr Shelley did not even have his own website or indeed there were no details about his qualifications.

A BBC spokesman added: ‘On The Box, a production company owned by Brian Klein, who regularly works with the BBC, was contracted for the item by The One Show.

'The show had not entered into any agreements with Wobbly Dog Productions.’

Mr Klein denied he had approached the BBC about Mr Shelley.


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