Tired of figuring things out too late

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Leslie H
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Tired of figuring things out too late

Postby Leslie H » Mon Apr 06, 2009 6:00 pm

Soleil has always been a mouthy greeter. She'll grab pant legs, sleeves, socks, and pull away. W/me, this has been redirected with her grabbing a slipper and carrying it. I've actually shaped this to her bringing me my slippers, we're not 100% there, but it's going well. I haven't discouraged her mouthiness, because it's usually just a few people that receive this kind of attention, and it's usually pretty funny. Feel free to think Leslie, you're an idiot here. Soleil is very reactive, her emotions all dial up high at the drop of a hat.
So tonight, there's a knock at the door. I'm surprised, as it's rural here, but I've got a couple neighbors. The dogs bark, there's an older guy there, I step out to talk to him, and Soleil squeezes out, squealing and whining. She promptly grabs the guy's pant leg, then while I clumsily try to grab her, she grabs a cuff. I grab her, she whines and squeals w/frustration from not being able to jump on the guy more. He's totally cool, really not bothered, although he doesn't recognize that she's being friendly. I think he also didn't recognize that she's A) an adult dog, B) the dreaded pit bull. He laughs it off, tells me watch dogs are good to have, I explain that they're friendly, not watch dogs, and forget to tell him to watch out for the neighbor's dogs (tiny fear nippers).
So, I'm really mad at myself for not recognizing the totally obvious, that not discouraging her mouthiness, even though I know she gets way overstimulated, and that what might be funny when done to family members would not be so hot in other circumstances, especially when she's already wound up. She can get hackly at these times, so I guess I need to look at the whole circumstances, is she conflicted, do I desensitize, work on basic manners, encourage her to greet w/something in her mouth? Am I being oblivious, and there's more going on here, if she is conflicted? She's a friendly dog, but she's also wimpy. Sigh...

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Postby Maryellen » Mon Apr 06, 2009 6:20 pm

i trained jesse my gsd to carry a bone whenever someone came over when she was younger as she was worse then soleil .. now at 8 she doesnt nip anymore when people come into the house, she just rams her nose in their crotch if she doesnt have a bone in her mouth.

soleil was good when i was petting her at the end,she didnt nip me at all, and leaned in for more scratches when we were at the trucks at the end of our day.

maybe teach her to carry something in her mouth until she is tired?

Soleil is very reactive, her emotions all dial up high at the drop of a hat.


boy does that describe ruby . she is BAD with my husband when he comes home, she is VERY mouthy and grabs his arm, hand, clothes. me she doesnt do it to but him she does as she knows he wont reprimand her.

with people coming over i keep her crated until the person is in and settled, then 10 minutes later i let her out of her crate on leash to greet, if she mouths, she goes back in the crate (and yes she doesnt pitch a fit like she did sunday going in the crate)

maybe start discouraging the mouthiness?

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Leslie H
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Postby Leslie H » Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:14 pm

maybe start discouraging the mouthiness?

Yeah, that's the least of it, I think.
She doesn't get that wound up off her turf. It's very quiet here, not too many knocks on the door. Gives me something else to work on. All your suggestions are good.

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Postby Julie K » Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:22 pm

Hi Leslie,

This is the real reason why George puts cans in the trash, because when he was younger, he was just awful. When company came over, I'd give him a bunch of stuff to put in the trash, all those drive explosions went there, and after awhile, he'd calm down.

Nowadays, he really is good, you can see him working and making an effort to do cute stuff like chin on the visitor or an actual lay down and put chin and tail on the floor. I can now see him make a conscientious decision to control his emotions. I think body part targeting helps them a bunch, any body part, any target; when I introduced George to actually touching a baby, I had him to identify feet, hands, l&r, and parts on the baby seat.

Julie K

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Postby Maryellen » Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:23 pm

you could always have friends help out by knocking on the door, and teaching soleil to bring something to the door,like flowers, the remote, the newspaper.. a toy... work her mind more maybe?

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Postby Leslie H » Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:45 pm

It is almost like she's so excited she doesn't know what to do w/herself. She's just boiling over w/excited emotions.
I like the job to do idea. I will have to teach her a task (especially since my slippers were already on my feet, though she has tried to take them off to "bring" them). Her food drive and her quick mind make her very workable.

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Postby BabyReba » Mon Apr 06, 2009 10:35 pm

wow, you all described button's "greeting" behaviors to a T. it's one of the handful of things about him that make me wonder what on earth i'm going to do with him.

he's not aggressive, but he becomes extremely overstimulated and frustrated when people come in, including me. he's looking for something to put in his mouth, and if there's not a convenient toy, he'll grab my clothes, my bag, or tucker, if he's conveniently located.

i started out trying to redirect his attention to a jute tug, which i was keeping by the door, but that kind of backfired because he got even more worked up instead of less worked up. so we started leaving a bone or kong filled with peanut butter at the door and i shove it in his face as soon as i come in! the goal, we're hoping, is to teach and condition calmer, more focused behavior by getting him into that state of mind before he gets to really greet anyone.

it's having some impact, though i still have to watch him. and if i don't have a peanut butter kong handy, i have to quickly find a ball or something to redirect him to or he's a tiny raving lunatic for about 5 minutes till he works through the conflict.

and i don't know about soleil, but with button it's definitely conflict--on one hand, he's happy to see someone, on the other he's not confident or secure enough with people to understand how to greet properly, and on top of that he gets frustrated very easily when he can't figure things out . . . i'm working on a calm behavior at the door, in hope that he'll become a bit more clear-headed eventually.

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Postby starrlamia » Mon Apr 06, 2009 11:24 pm

This is so like grendel is, he just gets so excited!
I dont have any advice but just wanted to say you arent alone :P

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Re: Tired of figuring things out too late

Postby retro » Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:01 am

Leslie H wrote: work on basic manners


seems like the best, first, approach. how is her "out?" i'm not sure what her obedience looks like, but teaching her a reliable "out" and "down" under any circumstances should let you defuse situations like that without much worry, but when it's you, or someone that's ok with her mouthiness, then she can play - as long as she stops when you tell her.

msvette2u

Postby msvette2u » Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:03 am

BabyReba wrote:wow, you all described button's "greeting" behaviors to a T. it's one of the handful of things about him that make me wonder what on earth i'm going to do with him.

he's not aggressive, but he becomes extremely overstimulated and frustrated when people come in, including me. he's looking for something to put in his mouth, and if there's not a convenient toy, he'll grab my clothes, my bag, or tucker, if he's conveniently located.

i started out trying to redirect his attention to a jute tug, which i was keeping by the door, but that kind of backfired because he got even more worked up instead of less worked up. so we started leaving a bone or kong filled with peanut butter at the door and i shove it in his face as soon as i come in! the goal, we're hoping, is to teach and condition calmer, more focused behavior by getting him into that state of mind before he gets to really greet anyone.

it's having some impact, though i still have to watch him. and if i don't have a peanut butter kong handy, i have to quickly find a ball or something to redirect him to or he's a tiny raving lunatic for about 5 minutes till he works through the conflict.

and i don't know about soleil, but with button it's definitely conflict--on one hand, he's happy to see someone, on the other he's not confident or secure enough with people to understand how to greet properly, and on top of that he gets frustrated very easily when he can't figure things out . . . i'm working on a calm behavior at the door, in hope that he'll become a bit more clear-headed eventually.


Is he not crated while you are away?
Is giving him a toy the moment you walk in, exacerbating, or helping the problem?
I thought one was supposed to make "home coming" as low-key as possible...wouldn't ignoring him work better?
I could be completely off the mark here, so tell me, if I am. lol

msvette2u

Postby msvette2u » Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:04 am

BabyReba wrote:wow, you all described button's "greeting" behaviors to a T. it's one of the handful of things about him that make me wonder what on earth i'm going to do with him.

he's not aggressive, but he becomes extremely overstimulated and frustrated when people come in, including me. he's looking for something to put in his mouth, and if there's not a convenient toy, he'll grab my clothes, my bag, or tucker, if he's conveniently located.

i started out trying to redirect his attention to a jute tug, which i was keeping by the door, but that kind of backfired because he got even more worked up instead of less worked up. so we started leaving a bone or kong filled with peanut butter at the door and i shove it in his face as soon as i come in! the goal, we're hoping, is to teach and condition calmer, more focused behavior by getting him into that state of mind before he gets to really greet anyone.

it's having some impact, though i still have to watch him. and if i don't have a peanut butter kong handy, i have to quickly find a ball or something to redirect him to or he's a tiny raving lunatic for about 5 minutes till he works through the conflict.

and i don't know about soleil, but with button it's definitely conflict--on one hand, he's happy to see someone, on the other he's not confident or secure enough with people to understand how to greet properly, and on top of that he gets frustrated very easily when he can't figure things out . . . i'm working on a calm behavior at the door, in hope that he'll become a bit more clear-headed eventually.


Is he not crated while you are away?
Is giving him a toy the moment you walk in, exacerbating, or helping the problem?
I thought one was supposed to make "home coming" as low-key as possible...wouldn't ignoring him work better?
I could be completely off the mark here, so tell me, if I am. lol

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Postby BabyReba » Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:38 am

Rob is usually home when I get home. So he's not crated at that moment, unless we consciously make the decision to put him in the crate before someone comes in the door.

We started doing that, but the woman we're working with suggested using the Kong instead. She wants him to actually learn calmness by pairing greeting at the door with a calm, focused activity.

Having and offering a toy can go either way--he may run around the room with it, screaming while it's in his mouth till he settles down, or he may get even more worked up and it will take him longer to calm down. That's why we're working with the Kong or bone with peanut butter--we dont' actually give it to him, we hold it and in order for him to get the peanut butter, he has to calm down long enough to lick it while the person holding the Kong has it in hand. He does not get to have it and run off with it, he just gets rewarded for calmness by being allowed to lick the peanut butter out of the Kong.

Ignoring him does not work, unfortunately. We tried that first. There is no low-key entrance when you walk in the door and Button is around--even if he's crated, he has a hard time working things out on his own, he works himself up into a frenzy. So we're trying to work with him, rather than try to get him to exhaust himself screaming in the crate or flying around the room looking for a way to calm himself.

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Postby pitgrrl » Tue Apr 07, 2009 11:38 am

Leslie H wrote:It is almost like she's so excited she doesn't know what to do w/herself. She's just boiling over w/excited emotions.
I like the job to do idea. I will have to teach her a task (especially since my slippers were already on my feet, though she has tried to take them off to "bring" them). Her food drive and her quick mind make her very workable.


This is so Basil and Streets. After a good couple of years trying to teach them to be calm when someone comes to the door, I gave up and went with giving them a task to do. So now someone knocks, they bark and run to the door, then I tell them to go find a specific toy and bring it back. It works pretty well, gives them something to do, puts something in their mouth and gives me time to let the person in without a hundred pounds of dog in the way.

Red Chrome

Re: Tired of figuring things out too late

Postby Red Chrome » Tue Apr 07, 2009 11:39 am

retro wrote:
Leslie H wrote: work on basic manners


seems like the best, first, approach. how is her "out?" i'm not sure what her obedience looks like, but teaching her a reliable "out" and "down" under any circumstances should let you defuse situations like that without much worry, but when it's you, or someone that's ok with her mouthiness, then she can play - as long as she stops when you tell her.


I think this is a great suggestion. Judge is learning who he can rough house with and who doesn't like it still. I allow all the naughty behaviors to happen with me as long as I can tell him Platz and he does it. So far so good.

Have you watched Ivan B's videos? They are great and the OB in drive is what I've done with Judge. He is a monster at the door until I tell him Platz, they come in and he's fine.

Good luck Erin and Leslie!!!

Courtney

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Re: Tired of figuring things out too late

Postby jimbojones » Tue Apr 07, 2009 2:21 pm

Red Chrome wrote:.
Have you watched Ivan B's videos? They are great and the OB in drive is what I've done with Judge. He is a monster at the door until I tell him Platz, they come in and he's fine.


What videos are these if you dont mind me asking


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