Advice would be appreciated

Tricks, obedience, behavior, and more.
Tula
Adolescent Bully
Posts: 207
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:24 pm
Location: PEI, Canada

Advice would be appreciated

Postby Tula » Mon Jul 27, 2009 8:40 am

Not sure if this is in the correct section, I didn't know where else to post.

I had Tula out on-leash (obviously!!) Saturday noon for a pee. We walked across the parking lot to my friends apartment, to stop in for a quick visit. As we're sitting on their porch waiting for her to unlock the door a lab/border collie ~5 month old puppy whips around the corner and runs up and jumps on Tula. Neither of us saw it coming (she would have made me aware of his presence if she knew he was there/coming), and she reacted as I would expect her to react in that situation; she bit him. She only had hold for a matter of seconds, then she released, and he ran off yelping. I didn't stick around to speak to the owner (because of their off-leash dog), but asked my friend (who knows them well) to call and see if he was ok.

I got paid a visit by my friend and the owner approx. 30 hours later saying the puppy was in the hospital with a massive abcess in his neck/shoulder, from a single puncture wound. That he needed the abcess lanced, was running a really high fever, needed radiographs to ensure the infection hadn't spread to his thoracic cavity, needed antibiotics and painkillers. The owner expects me to contribute towards the vet bill. I am a vet student and they brought the puppy here to the university, so I have since spoken to the veterinarian who saw the puppy; she confirmed everything the owner had told me. Commented that a single puncture wound isn't typical of bite wounds, and suggested it could be a claw? Tulas nails are trimmed weekly and are very short and not sharp at all, but anything is possible I guess. She also confirmed that she believed that the abcess COULD be from something that occured just 30 hours ago. Thats not been my experience, but I didn't see the animal so I'm not going to argue.

I have every intention of contributing towards the vet bill, moreso to keep the peace. The owner was very thankful, I he was wondering how he was going to be able to pay the bill. He was adament that he didn't want anything to "happen to" my dog.


Basically then they both said they think I should have my dog muzzled at all times when I have her outside my house, to prevent this from happening any more. I understand why they would say that, but I also am not sure its fair that I would need to muzzle my dog so other people can let their dogs off-leash to run up to greet my dog rudely. Tula is QUITE capable of greeting dogs politely; she got her CGN just last week, and that involved greeting a strange dog. The dog she greeted just stood there and let her sniff him, then politely sniffed her, and it was no big deal. However I do know that no matter how much training/positive socialization I do with her, I will NEVER be able to prevent her from reacting that way when a strange dog runs up and jumps on her, even in play.

I really don't know if I'm even asking a question, I just need to hear from people who might understand a little better than the average person. Any advice or comments would be greatly appreciated...

User avatar
Kingsgurl
Addicted to PBF
Posts: 7459
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 11:59 pm
Location: Shingle Springs, CA
Contact:

Re: Advice would be appreciated

Postby Kingsgurl » Mon Jul 27, 2009 9:38 am

I'm not sure what your leash laws are like in Canada, but here the puppies owner is the one at fault, as his dog was not properly restrained, while yours was. It's very nice of you to help with the vet bills too.
Personally, it's ludicrous to let a dog/pup run about off leash, then cry about the other dog when it gets told off for being rude (which it will)

Tula
Adolescent Bully
Posts: 207
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:24 pm
Location: PEI, Canada

Re: Advice would be appreciated

Postby Tula » Mon Jul 27, 2009 9:56 am

There is definitely a leash law. But I have no idea as far a liability goes. Should I look into getting some sort of liability insurance? I know in some areas its required, I'm just really worried that if this type of thing happened with the wrong person they might sue... and win. Someone told me earlier of a friend who was walking their greyhound when an offleash JRT attacked it. Grabbed the greyhound by the leg. And the greyhound retaliated and grabbed the JRT by the head; JRT owner sued and won...

msvette2u

Re: Advice would be appreciated

Postby msvette2u » Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:04 am

If this happened at my town where I was an ACO you'd not be liable.
Your dog was on-leash and his was not.
That said, there's a provision in (our) laws about your dog being "under control" and if your dog big, one could argue it was not "under control", and while that may be the case, neither was his.
Gosh - I mean, you could part of the bill but at least you get a discount there(?) which would help...
I wish you'd have either 1) gone to check on the pup yourself or 2) taken it to the vet then for the wound to be examined and flushed out.
Maybe this is a good lesson to us all - don't assume it's okay or nothing.
The dog could have been poked by a wire and gotten the abscess. Nobody reported or saw the injury at first so it's just an alleged injury allegedly caused by your dog at this point, correct?

Tula
Adolescent Bully
Posts: 207
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:24 pm
Location: PEI, Canada

Re: Advice would be appreciated

Postby Tula » Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:20 am

Exactly. The friend that I asked to call is also another vet student, so I thought she'd advise appropriately. But honestly she might not have called until later on that day... I honestly don't know. I agree, I should have gone to speak with them asap, and examined the dog myself; lesson learned there. I was just too upset at the time, and both myself and Tula were bleeding. I beat up my elbow pretty good because I fell on the pavement as I tried to break them up, and Tula tore a bunch of her toenails up on the pavement in the scramble I guess.

I do get a discount, I will go see if we can tweak it so they get my discount. I'm not planning on paying the full bill as the owner admitted it was atleast partially their fault because they weren't watching the dog closely enough. Went on to explain that he used to train huskies up north and likes to train them off-leash. Which I understand, I probably would have had my dog offleash if I had never owned Tula. But my perspective has totally changed since owning her, and I will NEVER have a dog offleash except in areas where there are no other dogs or with dogs that I know.

msvette2u

Re: Advice would be appreciated

Postby msvette2u » Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:26 am

I hope you can get your discount!
It's not fair as his dog was not leashed and yours was.
I mean, in a court of law it would probably go down like that, but who knows, the way things are these days.
Can you carry something with you when you walk to repel off-leash dogs, such an an airhorn or pepper spray?

Tula
Adolescent Bully
Posts: 207
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:24 pm
Location: PEI, Canada

Re: Advice would be appreciated

Postby Tula » Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:31 am

Yes I definitely can, and will begin doing so.

User avatar
tiva
Pit Bull Forum Addict
Posts: 1726
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 8:49 pm

Re: Advice would be appreciated

Postby tiva » Mon Jul 27, 2009 11:02 am

Liability insurance is a great idea, even though I can't imagine that you would legally be liable in this situation. If you have any resources at all to lose, liability insurance is generally quite inexpensive and quite worthwhile.

Muzzling your dog doesn't seem fair, although if it reduces your stress, maybe it's worth it (I have counter-conditioned my dog to like a basket muzzle, so we can work on letting him play with a few selected playmates that I trust won't nip him. But even with vast quantities of string cheese and peanut butter, he accepts the muzzle, sticks his nose in it happily, but really doesn't like walking with it on.. So I use it only for playtime, not walks). Perhaps you can practice your own techniques for protecting your dog from off-leashed dogs that want to run up and jump? I carry a can of sprayshield, for example (citronella spray), but mostly I always immediately step in front of my dog when I see an unleashed dog, so the unleashed dog can't reach mine. Some people carry cat food that they can toss in the opposite direction.

Patricia McConnell's Feisty Fido has some excellent instructions on how to keep your leashed dog from being approached rudely by an off-leash dog.

Tula
Adolescent Bully
Posts: 207
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:24 pm
Location: PEI, Canada

Re: Advice would be appreciated

Postby Tula » Mon Jul 27, 2009 11:12 am

Thanks Tiva, great advice. It WOULD greatly reduce my stress in that I would no longer be concerned about her hurting another dog, but it would make me feel like I was adding to the whole "bad dog" image that pits have.

I just spoke with our rally instructor, who is very actively involved with local BSL and is a huge pittie fan (although she told me to NEVER use the words "pit bull" ever again; Tula is officially an Am Staff :P). She deals with lots of legal issues, so I thought she'd be a good one to ask. Her advice was to get everything in writing (date, where it happened, circumstances, who was ON LEASH who was OFFLEASH, % I'm going to contribute to vet bills ETC), get both parties to sign it, and I'm also going to get her to proofread it etc to make sure theres no way anything could be twisted around. We're going to keep copies, mail some to ourselves that remain unopened, and we're also going to send a copy to the local BSL people to keep on record. So glad I thought to contact her, because I probably wouldn't have thought to get everything in writing. I have a witness too so I'm hoping she will sign everything as a witness as well.

User avatar
Stormi
Addicted to PBF
Posts: 5078
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 1:05 am
Location: Seattle
Contact:

Re: Advice would be appreciated

Postby Stormi » Mon Jul 27, 2009 12:05 pm

tiva wrote:I carry a can of sprayshield, for example (citronella spray), but mostly I always immediately step in front of my dog when I see an unleashed dog, so the unleashed dog can't reach mine. Some people carry cat food that they can toss in the opposite direction.


x2

All of these are wonderful options. The open spaces in my neighborhood are terrible for off-leash dogs, so I've almost always got Spray Shield on me at all times, as well as animal control on speed dial :twisted:

If your dog was on leash and you have your witness who saw the incident, I don't see how you could be held responsible or be required to pay a vet bill.

User avatar
Amie
Moderator
Posts: 17463
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:10 pm
Contact:

Re: Advice would be appreciated

Postby Amie » Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:03 am

You might check into making sure that there is record somewhere that your paying (or giving them a discount) on the bill does NOT incriminate you.

God forbid anything happen like this again, all you'd need is this person coming forward and saying "see - it must have been at least partially her fault because she admitted it when she paid for the bill" for it to go very badly for you next time.

Tula
Adolescent Bully
Posts: 207
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:24 pm
Location: PEI, Canada

Re: Advice would be appreciated

Postby Tula » Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:00 pm

Good call Amie; will tweak it a bit so that is clear.

Spoke with pups owner today on the phone and he informed me he had no idea there was a leash law; he just moved here from Northern Canada! Was then very concerned that I was going to "turn him in". I told him I had no intention of doing that, I just want him to understand that neither I nor my dog were in the wrong in this situation and that if he wants to have his dog off-leash so be it; but this is the risk he will be taking, and if this happened again in the future that I won't be contributing to any bills. Because it could very well happen with other dogs, not just Tula.

User avatar
Stormi
Addicted to PBF
Posts: 5078
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 1:05 am
Location: Seattle
Contact:

Re: Advice would be appreciated

Postby Stormi » Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:42 pm

You're a lot nicer than I would have been!

User avatar
FBODGRL
Addicted to PBF
Posts: 10721
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2005 2:33 pm
Location: Eastpointe, MI
Contact:

Re: Advice would be appreciated

Postby FBODGRL » Wed Jul 29, 2009 2:39 am

Stormi wrote:You're a lot nicer than I would have been!



X2

User avatar
luvnstuff
Addicted to PBF
Posts: 6454
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 8:34 pm
Location: Michigan
Contact:

Re: Advice would be appreciated

Postby luvnstuff » Wed Jul 29, 2009 6:56 am

FBODGRL wrote:
Stormi wrote:You're a lot nicer than I would have been!



X2

YUP me too.
I would of been sorry to a degree.. but only if the people would of come to me. And I would of told them the hazards of letting a puppy or a dog go running around without control, sure it could of slipped past the door, or slipped the lead, but thats not my problem. Living and having a DA dog for 11 years now has given me some pretty tough skin. I know how to keep him out of harms way, but if something bum rushes him.. hey it sucks to be you buttercup.

I hear it all the time "my doggy just wanted to plaaaaay" well MINE DOESNT.
And if he bites your dog I am not going to be sorry, I have said many times, as we were being charged by doggies and puppies in various stages of "happy face" to "teeth baring/hackles up (ah.right it wants to flippin play".

If my dog is at my side, ON LEAD and in my control, well too bad.

And 30 hours later an abcess.. well too bad.. you should of came to me right after the incident, and I would of told you that a bite that didnt break the skin can be more serious than one that did, you might want to take it to a vet and buy a leash for gosh sakes. I use to have extra cheap leashes and martindale collars in my car I would give to people .

There is no liablity if your dog was in your control, unless you have the must muzzle dog at all times law when out, then there might be a problem there.. but if not, just because you own a bully breed doenst make us responsible for the world of loose dogs.

Sorry this happened, I know how upsetting it is!!!


Return to “Training and Behavior”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests