The bug is going off to camp... and I feel ashamed.

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haileyBug
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The bug is going off to camp... and I feel ashamed.

Postby haileyBug » Wed Jan 13, 2010 5:19 pm

On Saturday I will be loading up my fiance, myself and my Hailey Bug and taking hailey to the trainers. She'll be staying a week and then I'll be following up with 3 hour every other day meetings at the trainers house. The three hour sessions are NOT all training, the trainer said typically the dogs can swim, have a meal or cookies, relax or run around and dig in the yard and we'll train for three or four minute sessions around all that. THOSE sessions will last for three weeks. After all that he opens his home/training compound to class graduates most of the time and we're welcome to come back and practice what we've learned, let our dogs swim , or just watch him work the more advanced dogs. Each dog is trained one on two ( that is, the trainer, the dog and the owner).

I can not believe that I went into this ( owning a Pit Bull) with eyes wide open and this is the result. I feel like up to the minute I booked her into classes today I was failing her. I did so much research and reading on how to properly manage and handle her and her brother and I feel like everything I was doing was wrong. From a lack of exersise to a lack of proper nutrition ( she's allergic to grain and it took me over a year to get to the bottom of this with three vets).

Two weeks ago she almost killed a kitten ( outside) . she was loving it to death and it actually passed out. . . he shredded her muzzle ect but she just kept rubbing her face on him. She's also popped eggs out of my chickens ( and killed 3) by just grabbing them once and letting them go. None of this was prefaced with any kind of agressive behavior... I still don't think it's agression we're dealing with- just gameyness...however I do want to have control of her incase we ever develop any kind of agressions....

Hopefully all goes well and hailey will progress to the end of the 'class' which seems to be all the tools we need to get her CGCT certificate. . . with time obviously. I'm going to miss her terribly while she's away but I trust the guy that we've been talking to for a few weeks and his place is beautiful. He believes not in training the dogs to BE agressive but training the owners to manage any agression that may arise and if you get thru advanced training you can then progress to his personal protection work- nothing fancy like the 'professional ' bitework but he teaches the Watch Him cue and the bark on command. I don't want hailey to be bitework( im thinking of a word, that starts with an s.. but can't remember the rest) trained to the hilt but it would be nice to know that i can simply open her crate in the event that someone breaks in and she will watch and wait for a cue.

I'm still so nervous. And still feel like the level shes at is 100 percent MY fault.

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Re: The bug is going off to camp... and I feel ashamed.

Postby Stormi » Wed Jan 13, 2010 5:32 pm

First off, admitting that your dog needs training is NOT failing her. We all make mistakes, and none of us here can honestly say we know absoultely 100% about everything dog or for that matter have the most well behaved dog on the planet. There is absolutely nothing wrong with seeking professional advice when you are unsure of what to do - that's why behavior consultants and trainers are out there. Animal behavior is quite complex and qualified professionals spend years researching and studying behavior to get even an inkling of understanding of why our dogs do what they do.

Do you mind if I ask what facility she is going to be staying and training at?

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Re: The bug is going off to camp... and I feel ashamed.

Postby brunomom » Wed Jan 13, 2010 5:47 pm

Don't feel ashamed. You are a better owner for recognizing that you need some assistance and getting it. Truly.

I hope that your "bug" gets the help she needs and that you can feel happy with your choice & know that it was out of love & concern for her.

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Re: The bug is going off to camp... and I feel ashamed.

Postby MikeInTacoma » Wed Jan 13, 2010 6:09 pm

haileyBug wrote:[...] if you get thru advanced training you can then progress to his personal protection work- nothing fancy like the 'professional ' bitework but he teaches the Watch Him cue and the bark on command. I don't want hailey to be bitework( im thinking of a word, that starts with an s.. but can't remember the rest) trained to the hilt [...]

"Schutzhund," I think is your word.

As her owner, her current state is your responsibility (and I suppose your "fault," though that's not a solution-oriented way to think of it). Ditto what Stormi said -- getting her the help she needs is not failing her. Deciding it's too expensive or otherwise inconvenient -- that would be failing her. Good luck!

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haileyBug
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Re: The bug is going off to camp... and I feel ashamed.

Postby haileyBug » Thu Jan 14, 2010 12:27 pm

She'll be going to Jerry's K-9 in Alabama. I do know that his website promotes the WRONG information and when I brought it up to him he said he'd get right on it ... it says AKC pitbulls. :po:

i don't like that he breeds but I DO Like his training style and the safty of his facility. . . just incase anyone feels like picking the website appart...

She'll be in a run, but it will be secure and easily cleanable. At night she'll go into her individual crate in his heated and ventilated DOG garage... the human to dog ratio is pretty good ( each family member is incharge of 5 dogs per day- and he tries to limit his own dogs to work with to 3 training clients per week). he trains personal protection, obedience, agility and SAR dogs... he's an ex mp and seems to have an awesome reputation in the area. my vet reccomends him.

I'm in an area where GOOD dog people are limited ( my town was home to one of the biggest GA pit bull raids last year, and the SAME place was raided 3 years back as well).

better than the guy I showed up 30 minutes early to meet at a local park and saw him dangling a GSD by a pinch collar for a good minute. I'd WAY prefer to not have him touch my dog. And yes, i did report him .

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Re: The bug is going off to camp... and I feel ashamed.

Postby Stormi » Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:24 pm

Well... I will admit the website is a bit alarming in the fact that I don't know any reputable breeders that breed specifically for color and "protection". Typically, when I see "100% blue!!!", its hard not to assume the breeder is breeding for the good of the breed rather than his wallet. Strangely enough, I also don't see any training qualifications on his website about him whatsoever. It looks as though he learned his "skills" through the military, which are more often than not a very harsh and out-dated way of training that's not in any way based on the available behavioral science out there. I personally first look to see what acedemic level trainers have reached in their career. Where did they go to school? What credentials do they have? Its not just about having fancy letters at the end of their name, but putting in the time and work to really understand all the amazing scientific research out there on applied animal behavior.

What specific things are you asking this trainer to help you with?

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haileyBug
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Re: The bug is going off to camp... and I feel ashamed.

Postby haileyBug » Thu Jan 14, 2010 2:56 pm

he's going to be doing an evaluation on saturday for us... if it goes well on both ends and I feel that he is what he says he is ... then she'll go on to spend the week with him.

He's going to basically get her working on the basics ( which she knows 90% of the time...) he's going to get her to work on one command and reaction vs.where we're at right now... which is basically a hundred sit's till she does it for . 5 seconds. He'll get her to start the work twards her CGC test taking... ideally at the end of the next three months we're going to collectivly spend workign with him she's going to sit, down, stay , heel, down stay, start on recall work and start with off leash commands...once we're finished with the whole course he will create for us she'll hypothetically be able to downstay when we have company over and hopefully will be at least well on her way to doing the stop drop and redirect type stuff that i want and need. I'd hope that eventually she'll be able to be redirected if she say.. runs after a chicken and i can redirect and downstay her. he DID say that as a pit bull owner I should not be allowing her total off leash freedom at the dog park, regualr park or anyplace else other than an area that I am 100 percent sure of the security. He will also help me to teach her to be polite with food treats and to park when we are walking.

I'm most nervous about leaving her. I know the mans a good guy and has a good reputation and I'm happy to be working with him... i'll just have to block out the rest that I don't agree with... it is only 5 days that shes there with him.

He did say that for the cost of gas ( we're a good 45 mins from him so i get that) he'd be willing to spend some time at the house with us after shes "graduated" and if im still having problems with the dogs as a group. we have zero dog agression its just more hyperactivity and we need to learn to gain control as a group. or at least groups of two... all in all he's been very accomodating in what he's willing to do for us ... I am expecting a 3rd refrence to call me back later tonight.. I emailed several people as well and they all were happy.. one woman had concerns about the scrapes on her dogs nose but I used to work on a kennel and i know that sortof comes with the concrete and chain link territory.

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haileyBug
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Re: The bug is going off to camp... and I feel ashamed.

Postby haileyBug » Thu Jan 14, 2010 2:59 pm

wegobad wrote:
As her owner, her current state is your responsibility (and I suppose your "fault," though that's not a solution-oriented way to think of it). Ditto what Stormi said -- getting her the help she needs is not failing her. Deciding it's too expensive or otherwise inconvenient -- that would be failing her. Good luck!



thanks I needed to hear that. I hope that my effort is going to do well for her and our household... I personally 'gave up' school this quarter to get her undercontrol and reined in amongst other things but really i did most of my scheduling for her. my fiance didnt say to me train her or get rid of her but really we were at the verge of no relationship because the dogs are so out of control . . . or were... with the exception of the bug we're all good now.

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Re: The bug is going off to camp... and I feel ashamed.

Postby BrokenAquarian » Thu Jan 14, 2010 4:56 pm

haileyBug wrote:

Two weeks ago she almost killed a kitten ( outside) . she was loving it to death and it actually passed out. . . he shredded her muzzle ect but she just kept rubbing her face on him. She's also popped eggs out of my chickens ( and killed 3) by just grabbing them once and letting them go. None of this was prefaced with any kind of agressive behavior... I still don't think it's agression we're dealing with- just gameyness...however I do want to have control of her incase we ever develop any kind of agressions....




How is it that she was able to have prolonged contact with the kitten and able to kill that many chickens? You cannot have predators and prey in the same area unsupervised. Chickens are prey to almost everything - especially cats. They need a secure pen that they stay in. Kittens are babies that should be carefully watched and dogs are skilled predators that in most cases should not have free access to these other animals.

Taking the dog off to a training facility probably won't fix the problems you're having in that area.

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Re: The bug is going off to camp... and I feel ashamed.

Postby Leslie H » Thu Jan 14, 2010 6:09 pm

There's no way I'd leave a dog with that guy. Ignoring the fact that he's an unethical breeder (zillions of dogs, 18 month female APBT is either very pregnant, or has more likely already whelped). His training accomplishments are really weak, the very few reputable titles he's earned are all low level titles. Most of what is listed on his "Certificates of Achievement" page are just certificates of participation. I would not trust this guy with my dog, not for a minute, never mind a week.

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Re: The bug is going off to camp... and I feel ashamed.

Postby Maryellen » Thu Jan 14, 2010 6:39 pm

no way would i leave my dog at a "camp" for training..let alone this guy . even though its only 5 days ALOT can happen in that 5 day period.

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Re: The bug is going off to camp... and I feel ashamed.

Postby jtalt7 » Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:42 pm

Just as a side note, not one of the Presas are to standard.........huge faults; blues, white blazes, not a fan.

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Re: The bug is going off to camp... and I feel ashamed.

Postby Stormi » Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:46 pm

I agree with what Leslie said. This guy has no training qualifications at all, and what he does have on his website is either not impressive or downright worrisome. I can't imagine for a moment that there isn't someone qualified you can go to so you don't have to "ignore the bad stuff". I wouldn't let this guy touch my dog with a 10 foot pole, especially when I wasn't there to see what he was doing. Anyone who claims they can "cure" a dog of prey drive in 5 days is doing some very shady stuff behind closed doors.

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Re: The bug is going off to camp... and I feel ashamed.

Postby Amie » Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:05 pm

I think it's great that you recognize you don't have the level of control you should, and that you need help.

However, I also think it's important to remember that a great deal of training with dogs is about teaching the handlers how to better communicate with the dog. Which means sending her away isn't likely to be the best method for fixing problems - another trainer may "fix" the issues, but if you keep doing what you're doing, she's extremely likely to revert to what she used to do with you.

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Re: The bug is going off to camp... and I feel ashamed.

Postby tiva » Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:11 pm

Don't feel ashamed! But also: Don't send your pup off to a trainer who is so dubious. Find a positive trainer who uses modern, science-based methods.

Of course, it's best to find a positive local trainer. But if you can't find one, board and train is a better option than letting major problems build up. You can find positive board and train people in Georgia--trainers who use only positive techniques. I haven't researched these three people, so of course you would want to do so before considering them. But at least they advertise themselves as positive reinforcement trainers, not "balanced" trainers or e-collar trainers:

Atlanta Dog Trainer : http://www.atlantadogtrainer.com/dogagility.html
Plumb Pooches: http://www.plumbpooches.com/MyTrainingPhilosophy.html
Sit Happens (a clicker-training program, not the horrible Sit Means Sit people): http://www.sithappens.us/index_files/CoachingStaff.htm

For a listing of truly positive trainers in Georgia, see: http://www.trulydogfriendly.com/blog/?page_id=4
Better yet, send a PM to Red and ask her if she can make a recommendation.


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