Sending out for professional training...Advice? Thoughts?

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Sandwich
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Sending out for professional training...Advice? Thoughts?

Postby Sandwich » Thu Jan 28, 2010 11:49 am

I searched but can't find too much related to "sit means sit" as the search terms don't yield much. But anyways, I'm sending my Blackie out for 42 days of conventional leash/collar training NOT the sit means sit e-collar training. The family that will be boarding him work for sit means sit, and do a 21 day e-collar training which I did not want..however, he said in order to get Blackie behaved and obeying commands by leach/collar methods, he will need double the time of his e-collar program, or 42 days (for the same price though but still very pricey). So my little boy will be gone 42 days but I should get him back as a different dog hopefully. We will be visiting him once or twice per week in the meantime to see his progression.

Just wondering, how you board members feel about this type of thing? Have a lot of you guys sent out you're little guys/girls for professional training? Anyone have experience (good or bad) with sit means sit? Remember I'm not doing the E-collar method even though they are with that company. The guy met Blackie and seems pretty confident he can train him with no issues. This is a big decision for us, and a lot of money. But if we get solid results and a better dog and we can continue training I think it will be worth it in the end. I'd like to be able to take him more places, and have people over the house and stuff like that. Thanks for reading!

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Stormi
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Re: Sending out for professional training...Advice? Thoughts?

Postby Stormi » Thu Jan 28, 2010 1:06 pm

Long story short - I do not recommend board and train options for behavior issues, and I would absolutely not recommend Sit Means Sit or anyone who uses strong aversives in their training. Find a local qualified behavior consultant who can work with your dog AND you.

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elegy
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Re: Sending out for professional training...Advice? Thoughts?

Postby elegy » Thu Jan 28, 2010 1:22 pm

no way. i don't care what promises are made, bottom line is, behind closed doors, you have no idea what they're doing to your dog.

so much of dog training is building a relationship. you're not doing that if you're sending your dog away. so much of dog training is learning to read your dog and your dog learning to read you. again, you can't do that if you're not there. learning to work with your dog, learning how to modify behaviors, learning how to teach your dog things- i don't know how you can sidestep those important steps and still be successful longterm with your dog.

why not just enroll in a regular obedience class? way cheaper and YOU will learn. or have someone come into your home and teach you and your dog together? why send him away?

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Re: Sending out for professional training...Advice? Thoughts?

Postby ProudMommy77 » Thu Jan 28, 2010 1:23 pm

I don't do board and train, what are the big issues he is having? I am not sure where in Jersey you are, but there's a couple of very good trainers in the Philly/Jersey area.

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Re: Sending out for professional training...Advice? Thoughts?

Postby pblove » Thu Jan 28, 2010 2:21 pm

absolutely not a good idea!
Please go to a trianer that you and your dog will work with together.
You have no idea how they will care for, treat, or train you dog when your not there to supervise. (Have heard way too many negative experiences with 'sit means sit'.)

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Re: Sending out for professional training...Advice? Thoughts?

Postby Sandwich » Thu Jan 28, 2010 4:07 pm

wow i wasn't expecting such a burst of negative responses. I understand everything that was said. And i knew some people (won't name names) wouldn't read in between the lines and see that I said they work for sit means sit, but he's not getting the sit means sit training. He's going to live, in their house (husband and wife, 3 kids and other animals), and get trained by them every day for a month. And then I get to go for a few days and get lessons and training myself before I take him home. I didn't think it was such a bad thing like you guys are saying. But we'll see. Either way I think he will be in good hands based on everything that I've seen so far. I get to visit and interact any time I like as well. The only problem I'm having is the anxiety of knowing I won't have my dog at home for a month

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Re: Sending out for professional training...Advice? Thoughts?

Postby Amie » Thu Jan 28, 2010 4:13 pm

Sandwich wrote:And i knew some people (won't name names) wouldn't read in between the lines and see that I said they work for sit means sit, but he's not getting the sit means sit training.


So you believe that they work for a company that practices certain "techniques" of training, and aren't going to use similar methods in their private work?

A lot of dog training is based on trainer reflex - to praise or reprimand (depending on your method) in the moment it's happening, you have to do it almost without thought. To do that, you have to practice it. A lot.

I have a very hard time believing that someone could practice Sit-Means-Sit methods at work over and over, and then in their off-time not do very much the same thing.

So to answer your question, no way would I ever leave my dog to be trained unsupervised by someone who practiced Sit Means Sit methods, even if they swore they weren't going to use an e-collar on him.

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Re: Sending out for professional training...Advice? Thoughts?

Postby jamielvsaustin » Thu Jan 28, 2010 4:15 pm

Sandwich wrote:And i knew some people (won't name names) wouldn't read in between the lines and see that I said they work for sit means sit, but he's not getting the sit means sit training.



This is only what they're telling you. I think, if they are comfortable with the type of training you don't want to use on your dog, you will have NO WAY of knowing for sure what they're doing when you're not there. If you trust them, then fine. But there aren't many people I trust with my dog. I think you have other options before doing this.

I would suggest, if it is something you're still considering after everyone here has voiced their concerns against it, then when you do go to visit, if you see something...anything you don't like, get Blackie out of there ASAP. Even if they won't refund you.

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Re: Sending out for professional training...Advice? Thoughts?

Postby Mya&theSiebenDackels » Thu Jan 28, 2010 4:20 pm

Why not just have a trainer come out to your house and work with you and your dog instead of sending him off to be trained?

Training can be a great way to bond with your dog and can be very rewarding. I think your dog would be much more comfortable having someone come out to your house and help you work one on one with your dog. Or if all you are wanting is a dog that walks nice on leash than enroll in obedience classes. Much cheaper and you get to work one on one with your dog.

I would never trust some one to keep my dog for a month and train them. I would have no idea what was going on while my dog was away at the trainer's place.

Also, have you went and looked at where your dog will be staying when with this trainer?

Good luck and hope everything goes ok!

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Re: Sending out for professional training...Advice? Thoughts?

Postby kaytenmags » Thu Jan 28, 2010 4:24 pm

if they're not using the e-collar, what methods do they use?
positive reinforcement? leash corrections? food rewards? rolled up newspaper to the nose? :dunno:

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Re: Sending out for professional training...Advice? Thoughts?

Postby lilangel » Thu Jan 28, 2010 4:34 pm

Don't do it!!! If you are not there, you do not know what they are doing to your dog. SMS should be renamed: Sit Means Sit right the F**K now goddammit or you're gonna regret it Mother F9&&ker!!!

What you're thinking about doing just sounds wacky to me. Its like relinquishing your dog to the pound and expecting them to put fluffy in a nice clean office with the pound director, not in a filthy, wet cement slab kennel run with no natural light with 20 other barking dogs.

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Re: Sending out for professional training...Advice? Thoughts?

Postby ProudMommy77 » Thu Jan 28, 2010 4:43 pm

this may not sit well with some, but I am going to say it. Sending your dog off to be "trained" means your lazy, and you don't want to deal with the responsiblity. And don't get me wrong, it can be a huge pain to train. Especially when you are trying to convey commands to the dog, and the dog looks at the butterflies, or would rather offer you something else. However, that's part of training, it's a learning experience and a bonding experience between handler and owner. You can do as you see fit it's your dog, but I find it a bit aubsurd you are taking a easy route out, you didn't even say what the major issues you are having with this dog. I would rather spend my hard earned money on more useful things, then some guy that works for people that like to take another easy route out by using e collars, I am in no means against e collars, but they are not the answer to everything. Oh well, hope the dog comes back healthy, and not a nerve bag.

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Re: Sending out for professional training...Advice? Thoughts?

Postby Stormi » Thu Jan 28, 2010 4:46 pm

Sadly, lilangel's right. Sit Means Sit isn't about teaching communication between you and your dog, its about teaching your dog to be scared to death of you and fear for its life at all times. Not the most pleasant relationship-building experiance.

I work as a trainer both publicly and privately, so allow me to let you in on a little secret. "Dog training" is about 90 percent teaching the humans how to communicate and understand their dog's behavior. If you take that part out of the equation, what have you got? A whole lotta money down the drain for you dog to learn a couple obedience commands at the hand of a stranger doing god knows what to the poor dog.

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Sarah
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Re: Sending out for professional training...Advice? Thoughts?

Postby Sarah » Thu Jan 28, 2010 5:27 pm

What everybody else said. Board & train is a risky thing, the trainer could be doing anything to your dog. There's probably a few places where you could get it done without having to worry about your dog, but it would have to be with somebody whose normal training methods were the ones you wanted used. Frankly, if you're sending to someone who normally uses an e-collar, you'd be safer to have them use the e-collar on your dog rather than whatever scary corrections they might come up with in it's place.

Also, as has been said, training is more about you & your dog learning to communicate than teaching commands. What is the dog being trained? You can teach basic obedience commands (sit, down, stand, stay, heel) in a few weeks with positive methods. It would take longer to proof for all situations, but odds are that if you get a dog back that's been trained elsewhere, you're going to have to continue with training afterwards. The dog isn't going to keep up the behaviors if it leaves the training environment and goes into a completely different situation with different handling.

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Re: Sending out for professional training...Advice? Thoughts?

Postby starrlamia » Thu Jan 28, 2010 6:38 pm

Ive read to many horror stories of people sending their dogs to places like these, only to have the dog come back terrified, stressed, no confidence. It makes much more sense to do private training session with your dog then to send it to someone else. This also gaurentees that your dog is not being treated how you would not want them to be. Im very particular about training though.


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