Capone needs fixing, We Need HELP (long)

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RoxieRules
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Re: Capone needs fixing, We Need HELP (long)

Postby RoxieRules » Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:35 am

Wow. You are so patient! That pup is lucky to have you as his mom. Sounds like your doing all the right things. Hang in there!!!!!!

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PitBull-Lady
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Re: Capone needs fixing, We Need HELP (long)

Postby PitBull-Lady » Sun Apr 18, 2010 11:00 am

I'm trying :)

He is such a sweet boy. In all honesty I was scared to post up that he got out the front door and took Flower with him. I know how people can be ;)
I swear, I have never baked so much in such a quick amount of time. EVERYONE who helped got cupcakes or chocolate chip cookies. Wouldn't you know I was running out of butter that night too. Of course, as I am finishing and getting everything ready to walk down the street and deliver them, my husband came home. (he was out with friends and too far away to call home, so why bother) What was funny, he came in, saw everything and said "what's going on?". I told him to grab Jasmine since she did NOT get a walk and a box of cupcakes and I'd tell him. He was so confused lol and amazed so much went on lol

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Re: Capone needs fixing, We Need HELP (long)

Postby PitBull-Lady » Mon Apr 19, 2010 8:05 pm

OK, so we might have an answer about this fence jumping. Other canine stimulation.

I've been paying attention to when we gets excited at the fence. It's when there are other dogs out.

Tonight, the neighbor across the street was going on a walk. He was beside himself and went over. Mind you this was when he first climbed the fence too. When this dog and his house mate went out for a walk.

So... looks like he is OVER stimulated by the other dogs in the neighborhood.

ALL HE WANTS TO DO IS SAY HI!!!

Is there a way to get his cheerleader, "Let's get together" attitude about everything under control???
He's neutered
He's not dominant
This is so-ooo confusing!

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PitBull-Lady
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Re: Capone needs fixing, We Need HELP (long)

Postby PitBull-Lady » Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:07 pm

Everyone.....




<sigh>




3 times yesterday
The sad part the 3rd time I thought he would not do it, ya know that maybe he was 'done'. Well not a chance.
Even sadder, I was stunned for just a nano second because he looked so perfect clearing the fence with one leap. I thought, oh maybe he could participate in events. WTF!!! he just got out!!!

So, I have now rigged up some airplane cable around the trees and it is not long enough to get to the fence, but gD! it!
I mean, wtf!

So today I called Veronica and we're getting together for the first session on May 14th.

Then we got home and H KNEW that I had rigged up the cable, but I guess he forgot. So, he let Capone out do I need to tell you what happened???????

Yeah, I caught him. Them we went on a 2mi walk.

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BabyReba
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Re: Capone needs fixing, We Need HELP (long)

Postby BabyReba » Thu Apr 22, 2010 7:13 am

putting aside the fact that he's a pit bull and should not ever be running loose in the neighborhood and i simply cannot abide loose dogs running in neighborhoods because it's not only dangerous, it's also unfair to the neighbors . . . the reason he's doing it over and over again is because he's learned he can do it, and he's getting better at it.

at this stage, every time he successfully clears the fence, the behavior is reinforced and the chance that he will do it again is increased. and it will make it even harder to teach him respect for boundaries if he continues to get chances to learn that he doesn't really have to respect them.

so besides all the typical pit bull stuff, which i won't rant on and on about, if you want this to stop you have to make a concerted effort to not let it happen--you gotta buckle down, there can be no more mistakes, no more forgetting to tie him when you bring him outside, no excuses. otherwise, you're setting yourselves up for a much more difficult time of it later on. at this point, he knows he can do this and he has proven to himself that he can do it repeatedly, so he will most certainly try it again. and again. and again.

also: he may be friendly, but if he ran up on a dog like doc out on the street, and doc got too excited, i can guarantee you that it would be ugly as ugly can be. your dog may be fine with other dogs, but god forbid he ever runs up on the wrong dog. vet bills, animal control, the works. not fun.

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ProudMommy77
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Re: Capone needs fixing, We Need HELP (long)

Postby ProudMommy77 » Thu Apr 22, 2010 8:15 am

:goodpost:

have you considered getting a higher fence to stop the leaping over, or hot wiring the current one to prevent the climb? That is if you don't want to use your cable line. It's a very dangerous situation, not just from the coming up on another dog, but the traffic on the street. Ya know.

RoxieRules
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Re: Capone needs fixing, We Need HELP (long)

Postby RoxieRules » Thu Apr 22, 2010 1:26 pm

You all definitly need a higher fence. Alot higher. I know its expensive, but it is worth the peace of mind for you and your neighbors. Just suck it up and spend the money. And I would do it NOW. Like yesterday, PBL. This situation just isnt safe.

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PitBull-Lady
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Re: Capone needs fixing, We Need HELP (long)

Postby PitBull-Lady » Thu Apr 22, 2010 7:54 pm

Wow. I'm a bit taken aback by the impassioned pleas by you all. I'm thinking that by all my pleading for sanity in the yard you misunderstand my position. (perhaps even think it calm or casual, not stressed and frazzled)

In the interim, before we get my mediator/trainer/behaviorist in the yard, we will live or cope with the tie out cable or trolly solution we're setting up. I am fine with even taking him out in the yard on leash and certainly I am intolerant of him not being under the control of one of his people particularly outside of the yard. I'm intolerant of any dog not being under control by their human leash or not.

In order to move forward and get our home to a new normal, I want to understand the issues. I need to know how to work with Capone. Because he is such a different dog than any I've ever had. I know I do not have the skills to work with him. I know my husband does not. That is why we are inviting someone to help us figure it out, evaluate our surroundings, our dynamic, and help us make the good times happen again.

Installing a new fence of any type before we can figure out it it will even work for him or the rest of the pack is not an option. If his issue is an issue that could not be solved by one type versus another type of fence, I certainly believe that is a true wasted effort for all of us. I want to learn the options, of which she has many ideas and solutions, that have served many of her clients well, Pit Bull or other. I'd rather try several options that could work than commit to one that is not best for our situation.

Capone & I are very thankful that you care enough about the sweet boy and the breed to spend time typing out such devoted posts to ensure he gets the best possible outcome from these behavioral trials and tribulations. I'll be sure to update on the pros and cons of the progress, hopefully more wins than losses. While I appreciate the opinions and passion behind your posts, I am committed to waiting until a hands on participant can weigh in and give a one on one assessment of the situation.

Thanks all, Capone appreciates your good wishes.

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MikeInTacoma
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Re: Capone needs fixing, We Need HELP (long)

Postby MikeInTacoma » Thu Apr 22, 2010 8:35 pm

PitBull-Lady wrote:Wow. I'm a bit taken aback by the impassioned pleas by you all. I'm thinking that by all my pleading for sanity in the yard you misunderstand my position. (perhaps even think it calm or casual, not stressed and frazzled)
:dunno: Dog got loose multiple times; could be viewed as the humans slipping up multiple times, with the attendant threats to all our dogs should an untoward incident have occurred and sparked more BSL. And, Leslie et al. are right; now that he's been rewarded (with the heady freedom of the streets) for trying to bust out, he'll keep on trying, and trying... (Not trying to pour salt in your wounds -- just pointing out why people might seem a little, uh, insistent. :hug: I've been there, though; one of our dogs used to dig under our fence and escape. Amazing how fast that little bugger can dig.)

PitBull-Lady wrote:In the interim, before we get my mediator/trainer/behaviorist in the yard, we will live or cope with the tie out cable or trolly solution we're setting up. I am fine with even taking him out in the yard on leash [...]
Good. :thumbsup: Having done that for months at a time, I can attest to how inconvenient it is; but it's safest. Also, good on you for getting help from a pro. Real-time and hands-on almost always trumps internet chat boards.

PitBull-Lady wrote:In order to move forward and get our home to a new normal, I want to understand the issues. I need to know how to work with Capone. Because he is such a different dog than any I've ever had. I know I do not have the skills to work with him. I know my husband does not. That is why we are inviting someone to help us figure it out, evaluate our surroundings, our dynamic, and help us make the good times happen again. [...]
You may not have the skills you want today, but I am confident you will learn them. As far as I can tell, what the best trainers really do is teach the owners to train.

This video was posted around here somewhere; I enjoy it, and maybe it will give you some encouragement. (And, it is a good idea to have a detailed thyroid panel done. Thyroid levels can have a significant effect on behavior -- I don't remember the details, but I think aggression and fear responses are mediated in part by the thyroid. But, as I understand it, most vets / labs don't do a sufficiently detailed test. The experienced folks here often recommend having the sample sent to a vet in California for a proper analysis -- Dr. Dobbs, iirc.)

RoxieRules
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Re: Capone needs fixing, We Need HELP (long)

Postby RoxieRules » Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:31 am

I'm not sure I understand the downside to not getting a taller fence. Is it the money your worried about? A nicer taller fence is a home improvement and will probably increase your resale value if/when you ever want to move. It seems like a no-brainer to me. I don't mean to sound insensitive or anything, but a TALL FENCE would keep your dogs and your neighborhood safe. I'm worried that something bad is going to happen. It also sounds like your husband has little to no patience for Capone and it's going to undermine everything YOU are trying to do. Just my take on this from waht I've read. He needs to totally be on board to.

Your love for that dog is incredible and he is one lucky pup to have you. Just be careful. With this breed safety for ALL should come first.

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MikeInTacoma
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Re: Capone needs fixing, We Need HELP (long)

Postby MikeInTacoma » Fri Apr 23, 2010 7:14 am

Taller fence might not help, if dog learns to dig under or climb over -- or injures himself trying. And tall fences are not allowed in some jurisdictions, which is just crazy; but life's crazy. Besides, a taller fence by itself won't solve the fixation on the neighbor dog. Most likely, absent some kind of behavior modification program, Capone would just develop a really obnoxious barrier frustration.

So, if they're gonna do b-mod anyway... maybe they don't need the taller fence (because they'll train Capone to respect the low one they've already got). I don't fault them for preserving their options until they talk to a pro, since it sounds like that's in the works and will happen sooner rather than later.

I do think that a taller fence is a very good idea, and not necessarily too costly if you do the work yourself and use some of the less aesthetically pleasing material. This is something my GF and I keep disagreeing on... I think we desperately need a taller fence, and I'd have a cheap one of welded wire up in a weekend... but she wants to save up for an attractive wooden privacy fence installed by professionals. So, she sees my temporary cheap fence idea as unacceptable -- the money we'd spend on that could instead go toward saving for the attractive fence she wants; and she knows that with a temporary solution in place, getting the permanent solution will not seem as urgent. (I'd be ok with her privacy fence idea, but it's been over a year and we're no closer to it. :( )

RoxieRules
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Re: Capone needs fixing, We Need HELP (long)

Postby RoxieRules » Fri Apr 23, 2010 1:28 pm

:goodpost:

I just worry about the "what ifs" when capone gets out.


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