March Trick of the Month: Army crawl

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Red
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March Trick of the Month: Army crawl

Postby Red » Sat Mar 05, 2011 6:58 pm

So I guess that is the trick of the month is the "army crawl"'.I started shaping the behavior with Jack an hour ago, who is an experienced clicker trained dog. The behavior has no been put on cue yet, since I want to see him offering a certain amount of reps before I add a cue, and I'd like for people not to hurry things up and rush into the process staring to name behaviors that are not there yet.

Free shaping is ideal when teaching behavior, but I am not sure how many people completely free shape here as it takes some experience.To make it a bit easier for those who want to play with their dogs and avoid frustration, I used some targeting. Targeting is not is not luring.With luring dog moves following the food and he/she is manipulated though it. Although luring can be a short cut it can end up sometimes with problems. Dogs that are lured and luring is not faded correctly do not learn to think in term of positions and movements but in the term of where the food is and where it is going.

A target stick was used to put Jack in a down position.Many start downing the dog with a cue, but I wanted to avoid it. Small approximations toward the goal behavior are clicked and you hear a lot of clicking. The dog has no clue about what the behavior looks like, so the criteria is low and he is on a continuous schedule of reinforcement.Each small movement forward gets him a reinforcer, whether it is moving a leg, pushing his nose forward or attempting to move his back legs.


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Re: Army crawl

Postby Red » Sat Mar 05, 2011 7:13 pm

Sorry, hit submit before finishing. Finger/hand targeting was also used, just to give a visual to who does not have or use a target stick. Something to keep in mind is that if the dog leaves to go pick up a treat left behind, or gets up, he does not get any type of correction. The dog does not know the behavior and it would be unfair to tell him that he is wrong. He isn't, he is learning.I either I send him away to get a treat or I give him the opportunity to try again, re presenting the target and clicking him for a more correct position.



I introduced some gates to go under, since later on I might want to ask him to go through an obstacle course. Still using the finger target to make it easier for him, since there is the raising of a criteria (gates in the environment).


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Re: Army crawl

Postby MarMar » Sat Mar 05, 2011 7:27 pm

I love how happy he is :) I am going to try this with a target stick for sure to avoid the luring issues I was having. Thanks!

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Re: March Trick of the Month: Army crawl

Postby BabyReba » Sat Mar 05, 2011 8:00 pm

Doc is sleeping beside me right now, very content, so I'm not going to rouse him to begin this evening, but we'll start tomorrow when we're both fresh and post up our vids and see how it goes. He's an impatient dog, and though he understands the clicker, he's also a dog who's less likely to offer behaviors than he is to bark in frustration when he's not being rewarded. So it might be a loud morning!

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Re: March Trick of the Month: Army crawl

Postby Sarah » Sat Mar 05, 2011 8:25 pm

Is the point of this that everyone is training using the same techniques, or are people just training the same behavior? I'll play along with Pirate if it's the 2nd (Tess already knows this behavior, so no point in teaching her), but I don't want to be bound to one technique, so I can't participate if it's the first idea.

The method I saw to teach the crawl before I taught it involved having the dog crawl beneath the owner's bent knees (owner sitting on the ground). I didn't do that, because my short legs don't allow for a lot of room. I taught it to my girls via luring. Worked fine for us.

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Re: March Trick of the Month: Army crawl

Postby BabyReba » Sat Mar 05, 2011 8:49 pm

i don't think everyone has to do it the same exact way, but i thought it'd be good to start out with some guidance for people who don't know where to start, which is actually why we asked stormi and red to pitch in ... people who are being trained to teach other people would be good to explain how to do things, lead and give pointers, feedback, answer questions, etc.

not everyone has to use a clicker or target stick, and some dogs will learn faster than others or excel more quickly, and some people are training with different goals in mind, so obviously we'll all do things somewhat differently. But there are plenty of people who are novice enough at this kind of thing that seeing how someone uses them might give them a good starting point that'll set them up for success. so i did ask for some basic instructions to help people who need help learn how to start.

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Re: March Trick of the Month: Army crawl

Postby MetaMuffin » Sat Mar 05, 2011 9:17 pm

I might attempt to free shape this, just for the challenge. Any tips on how to split it? The initial behavior to mark is always the hardest part for me. I guess the first part would be laying down... then what? Any shifts in position? Just head position? I'll have to ponder this.

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Re: March Trick of the Month: Army crawl

Postby MarMar » Sat Mar 05, 2011 9:20 pm

Becky is also a barker when clicker training...her version of "101 Things to do with a box" quickly becomes "Shred the box with teethies and then bark a lot" lol. I sometimes work with her in the kitchen and if she gets too barky I turn away and wash dishes for a couple of minutes..so far I think it's working.

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Re: March Trick of the Month: Army crawl

Postby Sarah » Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:30 am

BabyReba wrote: so i did ask for some basic instructions to help people who need help learn how to start.


That's fine, I just wanted to be clear on what we were doing. Pirate doesn't know crawl yet, I'll work on it with him.

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Re: March Trick of the Month: Army crawl

Postby BabyReba » Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:01 pm

I started with both Button and Doc today ... still trying to get Button's vid to upload, but here is Doc for now.

I also began without verbal cue and by using a target, but I'm nowhere near as smooth with it as Red, so please take that into consideration when you watch the vid!

Doc is easily frustrated, so I started by just getting him laying down and showing him that I wanted him to target my hand held down low, and I clicked him for just moving his body forward to reach my hand, even if he lifted up some, but now that I watch this video, I can see that my big mistake was asking him to target my hand so high that he has to lift his head and at times his body ... that'll make it harder for him to figure out that the crawl requires him to keep his head and body down low, so I will need to keep that in mind tomorrow and ask him to crawl to a much lower target.

Anyway, it's a start. I'll upload Button later.

(PS. You will notice that Doc targets things with an open mouth ... he will actually get super-excited at times that he nips and bites when he targets things. I've managed to revise his targeting method from time to time, but he generally reverts to biting again after a while. Something else to work on, I guess!)


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Re: March Trick of the Month: Army crawl

Postby BabyReba » Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:32 pm

Other video loaded, so here's Button. Same problem--I'm asking them to target too high. But Button was easier to corral than Doc. He catches on quickly.


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Re: March Trick of the Month: Army crawl

Postby HappyPuppy » Sun Mar 06, 2011 3:35 pm

Cool! I wasn't 'ready' when the last thread like this came up, so now that I have a very basic start with clickers (thank you, Pack and Red !!!) I want to participate in this one! :)

Yay - we got about 6 feet and did it twice!!! Woo hoo - will work on getting video when DH can help me figure out his equipment!! I just used my hand but am still looking for a good tip for a pointer wand. I waited for Ruby to down initially without giving any commands. (I didn't know what to do when she stuck her butt up in the air mid way thru but basically waited her out until she downed.)

I misinterpreted Red's 'treat left behind' ... so I tossed one away for Ruby to get and so we could start over when I backed us up into a wall... LOL but it worked without having to use any commands :)

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Re: March Trick of the Month: Army crawl

Postby FBODGRL » Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:22 pm

Somehow I must have missed when this started :oops:

I taught Khan crawl a while back....although I am not sure how great he is with it. Since we worked on it and really haven't used it since then.

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Re: March Trick of the Month: Army crawl

Postby BabyReba » Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:44 pm

What better time than now to brush him up on the skill? Join in!

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Re: March Trick of the Month: Army crawl

Postby Enigma » Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:46 pm

I have to say it one more time.. I LOVE this Trick of the Month idea :thumbsup:

Ok, so me and Brina started on army crawl today. I tried with the target stick, but i saw that it would be better to use hand targeting. Although, she doesn't really target my hand with her nose, she prefers to use her paws. At first she was a bit confused, she thought we will be doing her favorite tricks - Roll Over & Play Dead (she offered that behaviour a few times during our session), but with the help of a clicker she quickly figured out what we are doing.

Looking at the rest of the videos in this thread, i think i maybe raised my criteria a bit fast... I didn't really reward every slightest movement forward.. I rewarded one or two steps forward, and when she got it, i started rewarding three or four steps forward and so on.. Is raising the criteria faster a bad thing if the dog gets it? :dunno:

I forgot to film our first few trys, but here are a few videos of our beginnings:
http://s1133.photobucket.com/albums/m591/BrinaJaka/?action=view&current=6fa581d9.mp4

http://s1133.photobucket.com/albums/m591/BrinaJaka/?action=view&current=33f56e89.mp4

And this was the end result for now.. She is crawling from one end of the room to another... We'll be doing that for a while now and then i will start adding a cue. Then i hope eventually she will do it without the help of my hand (that is always the hardest part for Brina).
http://s1133.photobucket.com/albums/m591/BrinaJaka/?action=view&current=a7378bc3.mp4


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