Sit means Sit?

Tricks, obedience, behavior, and more.
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BigBadPibbul
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Sit means Sit?

Postby BigBadPibbul » Sun Sep 11, 2011 6:16 am

I've got a flier on my leg from this company... Wow.
I've also got one hell of a story to tell you guys when I'm not fighting the clock to get to bed lol
Have any of you guys dealt with these people before? I met someone today at a dog event who may well have been one of the most off-putting trainers I've ever met.

So this flier...
Fred Hassen's Sit means Sit dog training.
"Our mission is to provide training programs that result in a happy, confident, and obedient dog, as well as a happy, confident, and satisfied owner."
Then in a big red blaze "As seen on animal planet" with a picture of a dreamy looking person holding onto a Golden Retriever.
Now on the back it says...
"At sit means sit, we strive to make every training experience enjoyable and educational for people and dogs alike."
(I couldn't help but notice that the eight or so dogs walking around the event today with people in the "Sit means Sit" T shirts were wearing electronic shock collars...)
"Upon completing our program you will confidently:
*Walk your dog off leash
*call your dog and be rewarded with immediate obedience
*Gain control while still showing your affection."
"We specialize in controlling:
Jumping up
Nuisance barking
Running away
Destructive behavior
Separation Anxiety
Leash Pulling
Soiling the house
Nipping and chewing
Aggression
Other annoyances."
Sticker with the local contact info.
Web site
"Franchises Available!" (I found this more than a little disturbing)

What the poop? Really!?!? Just how in the world do you "fix" aggression and anxiety with a shock collar?
I'm not going to get too into the details tonight but suffice to say I'm amazed these people get business. I personally saw an eight week old puppy in their booth wearing a Sit Means Sit brand "electronic training device" around her neck, damn thing was easily half the size of her sweet little head!
So to those of you who are familiar with these people, thoughts?

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Adrianne
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Re: Sit means Sit?

Postby Adrianne » Sun Sep 11, 2011 10:35 am

lol Fred is a cruel nut but dangit he's a marketing genius.

I'd stay far away from their company; far, far away.

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mommy2kane
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Re: Sit means Sit?

Postby mommy2kane » Sun Sep 11, 2011 11:59 am

Yup -- stay away. I'm not for someone who slaps an e-collar on every single dog, for every single situation.

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MissKitty
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Re: Sit means Sit?

Postby MissKitty » Sun Sep 11, 2011 5:28 pm

mommy2kane wrote:Yup -- stay away. I'm not for someone who slaps an e-collar on every single dog, for every single situation.


:goodpost:

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Red
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Re: Sit means Sit?

Postby Red » Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:30 pm

BigBadPibbul wrote:(I couldn't help but notice that the eight or so dogs walking around the event today with people in the "Sit means Sit" T shirts were wearing electronic shock collars...)


They have to, the handlers.If they don't have electric collars they can't train.

? Just how in the world do you "fix" aggression and anxiety with a shock collar?


By fear, and fear is very powerful.Here is an example, both of a ignorant dog owner laughing at her dog displaying behaviors that are fear based and the miracle cure for fear.



So, what you see here is "results" since the video is to advertise this crappy company but what actually went on? That was not filmed in this case.Let's look at this dog:



And the "cure":



Why is the dog accepting those "trainers" presence? Is it that he suddenly like them or has to pick between fearing them or the electric stimulation? But hey, it is looking "suuuper", although the body language says something else.

Below, another gem.Is the dog already "better" or constantly show avoidance, desire to move away etc? The philosophy was to "show the dog who is the boss". Poor animal.


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Re: Sit means Sit?

Postby Team Peanut » Tue Sep 13, 2011 11:47 am

i have not been impressed the times i seen them out at competitions either

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Adrianne
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Re: Sit means Sit?

Postby Adrianne » Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:48 pm

Team Peanut wrote:i have not been impressed the times i seen them out at competitions either

The funniest part to me is when they take off those collars and get up on those docks their dogs are deaf to the world. What a joke. They're sadly the reason I jump Splash dogs and not Dock Dogs in this area, they make me far too uncomfortable and while they exist in SD it's not nearly as dense.

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Re: Sit means Sit?

Postby Team Peanut » Tue Sep 13, 2011 6:04 pm

yep i have only seen them like 2 times at splash dogs. i avoid dock dogs in general anymore. we have only done practice with them but at one practice fred was there and the dogs were all over the place

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Re: Sit means Sit?

Postby randomroads » Sun Sep 18, 2011 12:21 pm

I don't know everything, but with the rott shep mix I'm failing to see any kind of aggression. Fear, avoidance, vocalization because she's super stressed and feels that barking will make the scary thing go away, but he's reaching over her head to pet her and doing all kinds of things you shouldn't do with a fearful dog and she's not reacting in an overtly aggressive way.

I'm saddened to see the electronic collar represented in such an inferior way. There's a place and time to use them, but introducing new things to an already fearful dog without building her confidence in YOU and HERSELF is just a chocolate way to cut corners. Now stimulation is going to = fear instead of interest and eagerness.

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Re: Sit means Sit?

Postby msleo247 » Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:30 pm

At the most recent Pet Expo, I was walking Roarke (who was having a "I'm gonna do what I want" day) and this SMS guy came from his booth to talk to me. He said that he could help my dog respond faster and I couldn't help but laugh. I can walk 50 feet away from Roarke and ask him to lay down without an issue. A shock collar would just shut him down. I asked him what he would do if my dog shut down and he literally couldn't answer me, just gave a canned answer about how it doesn't hurt. :blah:

I DON'T like this method of training for every dog. Do I think it could have it's uses for certain breeds in certain situations? Yep! Would it work well on pit bulls? Probably not. lol

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Meaghan Edwards
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Re: Sit means Sit?

Postby Meaghan Edwards » Thu Sep 29, 2011 5:16 pm

I hate this company. There's a dog who comes into work (I work for a dog groomer) and while he did have aggression issues beforehand, after they took him to Sit Means Sit, he became a lot more unpredictable and doesn't growl before lashing out :( I really wish more people would do a lick of research before taking their dog to a trainer, too many people are setting their dogs up for fail.

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addieNmel
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Re: Sit means Sit?

Postby addieNmel » Sun Oct 02, 2011 8:45 am

Wow, how sad.. they use an electronic collar for everything? Unfortunatly one of these places jus tupened up in my town, we were brought a flyer, but were a bit unsure about it. Yikes!

Ive also heard they're pretty expensive.

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Shanda
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Re: Sit means Sit?

Postby Shanda » Mon Oct 03, 2011 8:50 am

The saddest thing in the vids Red posted to me is how the dogs, at the start, are all desperately turning to their owners for guidance and reassurance and getting none. At the end, the dogs aren't turning to their owners anymore. :(

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Red
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Re: Sit means Sit?

Postby Red » Mon Oct 03, 2011 1:48 pm

Keep in mind that these folks are certainly not the only ones who use the same methods on dogs, they are just all over with their advestising.Around here the average pet dog trainer with no education whatsoever charges $800 for 4-5 session in your home, to stim your dog even for silly stuff such as counter surfing, jumping on people and other behaviors that are not the end of the world and can be solved easily in other ways.

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Shanda
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Re: Sit means Sit?

Postby Shanda » Mon Oct 03, 2011 1:54 pm

Some wench in Central FL was advertising on FB. She starts pups on e-collars at 8 wks. She also breeds Labs & GSDs, and sends home collars with them. :yucky:


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