Looking for opinions

Tricks, obedience, behavior, and more.
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APBT
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Looking for opinions

Postby APBT » Tue Nov 01, 2011 3:05 pm

I have two dogs and they act totaly different..

The APBT - Perfect
Image
The Cane Corso / Pit - Something else.. and ill explain.
Image
1. I let both dogs run free and the Cane will wander.. Not far but she will go toward the back yard even though I insist she doesnt..

2. The Cane will not share food and always takes controll of eating first or even taking the toy the pit grabed. even if I put two bowls down the cane will go back and forth between them, making the Pit take the one she decides not to use. (does not growel at me for any reson but wont share with dog or cats)

3. The Cane pees every where and any where even on my wifes lap one or two times.

4. Eats poop (both do this actually) Ginni poop / duck poop / cat poop so far.

5. The Cane doesnt listen as well as the Pit.. She tends to follow the Pit when being told to come or comes in later etc..

6. The Cane Over eats and drinks. She reminds me of a water balloon the way she blows right up!

And all this stuff gets right under my skin! looking for opinions or solutions to these problems im having. Thanks alot!

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GoingPostal
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Re: Looking for opinions

Postby GoingPostal » Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:34 pm

Well if you give a dog free roam and they aren't trained to stay by you, why would they? You want the dog to stay in a certain place, you need to train and proof that behavior, or keep them on a leash or tether

Most dogs won't "share" food, in the dog world, you keep your resource if you want to live, that's how dogs work, you shouldn't be giving your dogs to option to guard from one another, it can easily lead to a fight and them hating each other, you are in charge, my dogs are all fed in separate places, they are not allowed to approach the others while they are eating or have goodies and they are never allowed to take things from each other, if they show guarding tendencies we work with them so they learn other dogs around their stuff is a positive experience and not something to spazz over, but I don't just give them toys or bones all together and let them work it out, it'd be a huge fight.

Is the CC housetrained? Could be a health issue, could be incontinence, you need to get that checked out by a vet first and find out if it's a health or behavior issue

Not listening, that's a training issue, either she doesn't know the command 100% or you are being lax with it and she knows she doesn't have to listen, if you say COME, and she doesn't and you don't do anything, she's learned that doesn't matter, doesn't mean anything, and does she know the command in the first place? You could be yelling BANANAS for all she cares, dogs don't speak english, go back to basics and train her, keep her on a long line until she is 100% on it.

Over eating and drinking, don't free feed first of all, feed her 2x a day, as much as she needs and that's it, the over drinking might be linked to her peeing everywhere and you should get her checked out by a vet, are both these dogs puppies and female? You can't expect a puppy to be fully trained on much, they are young, short attention spans, get them into some obedience classes if you can.

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barefootxen
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Re: Looking for opinions

Postby barefootxen » Tue Nov 01, 2011 5:49 pm

I think it helps to not consider one dog 'perfect' over the other.

It is up to you to determine how much food your dog eats. Feed them each a certain amount, and feed them separately always.
Taking control over how much she eats and how quickly can save her life; bloat can happen quickly and kill your dog.

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Re: Looking for opinions

Postby star_frances » Tue Nov 01, 2011 6:10 pm

How old are your dogs? They look like puppies from your pictures? Puppies take time and training, lots and lots of short training sessions in different situations throughout the day - positive experiences so they learn as they grow. They should be fed on a schedule, seperate from each other so they don't have to compete for resources. Guarding is a natural dog behavior, it can be worked with but it doesn't make a dog "bad".

I think you need to take a step back and realise they are babies. It takes time and patience. There's lots of good information in the stickies at the top of this section of the forum. Do some reading and be consistent and positive in your approach.

Here is some additional reading for you, this is a terrific article. http://drsophiayin.com/docs/articles/Lu ... s2Earn.pdf

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FransterDoo
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Re: Looking for opinions

Postby FransterDoo » Tue Nov 01, 2011 6:53 pm

APBT wrote:[b]I have two dogs and they act totaly different..


That's because they are different dogs. You have a lovely daughter - if you have another, will they do everything the same?

1. I let both dogs run free and the Cane will wander.. Not far but she will go toward the back yard even though I insist she doesnt..


You insist how? She doesn't understand that. She understands that it's more interesting and rewarding to check out the backyard sometimes. Think about how you can make it interesting and rewarding to stay near you.

I caution you about letting your puppies run free. Dogs get hit by cars, hurt by other dogs or simply "go missing" I do have dogs that I trust off-leash but it was a learning process and a period of evaluation for both of us. and they are not off leash in areas that are unsafe. These dogs are 4-8 years old.

2. The Cane will not share food and always takes controll of eating first or even taking the toy the pit grabed. even if I put two bowls down the cane will go back and forth between them, making the Pit take the one she decides not to use. (does not growel at me for any reson but wont share with dog or cats)


well, um, yah. it's food, dummie ;-) Resources are important and it's beneficial for a dog to want to keep everything for itself. I've made this analogy a million times but when I'm hungry - you better not sneak your fork on my plate. I will totally snark.

Solution? Feed them separately. My dogs who eat in crates RUN over to the crate. Heck, move too slow and my terrier will run back to you, bark at you and then run back to his crate. Once they are away, bowls are delivered.


3. The Cane pees every where and any where even on my wifes lap one or two times.


Have your vet check for a UTI or yeast infection. Then make sure she's 100% on house training. There's a few sticky threads in Behavior and Training.


4. Eats poop (both do this actually) Ginni poop / duck poop / cat poop so far.


Other animal's poop can have a lot of things that are tasty to dogs. protein, pre-digested vegetable matter, the list goes on. For cat poop, remove their ability to get to it. I've never know a dog with regular easy access to a cat box that's not willing and excited to treat it like a buffet.

For other poops, work on a "leave it" command - use the forum search and you can find some good ideas on teaching that.

5. The Cane doesnt listen as well as the Pit.. She tends to follow the Pit when being told to come or comes in later etc..


Some dogs are much more biddable than others. It doesn't make them better or worse but it does give you the opportunity to become a better trainer!

When they recall back to you - hand out a small, tasty treat. If one dog is slow coming back, treat and praise the one who did. Make a big freakin' deal over the dog that came back. When slower dog comes hauling butt over to you, make a big deal over that! treat, treat, treat, praise, praise, praise - give a butt rub. have a party.


6. The Cane Over eats and drinks. She reminds me of a water balloon the way she blows right up!


over drinking could be a medical issue. Now that you are separating the girls for meals times: portion out breakfast and dinner, add some water and there you go! You can try putting up the water bowl for 15-30 minutes after each meal to allow her stomach to get to her brain and say "you are full!"

Welcome to the wonderful and tiring world of puppy ownership. Another thing that is super important right now is to have individual time with each dog. You want them to love you and the other humans but if they are always together - they will love each other best.

That means that you do training time one-on-one. Take one for a walk. Take the other out for ice cream with the family. Take one for a car ride, take the other to a friend's house. That sort of thing.

Also, they might not always get along. You best bet is to spay them ASAP so sex hormones don't come into play but there is always going to be that chance that as they mature, they will have less tolerance for each other.

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trexgorawrrrrr
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Re: Looking for opinions

Postby trexgorawrrrrr » Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:59 pm

Along with what everyone else has to say, you are 100% playing favorites. I saw your introduction, and I read what you said about the puppies and how they came into your guys' lives.. You need to stop playing favorites so much and thinking that one dog is perfect over the other for starters. Don't treat them differently, they can feel that, and they will play off of it.

The housetraining thing I guess just kind of gets under my skin because they're puppies aren't they? House training is something YOU need to work on with them. Create a schedule, take them out after they do anything. Take them out before eating, shortly after, after playing, after napping, etc. If they are not 100% potty trained, expect accidents to happen. To me it sounds like there is a lot of work YOU need to do with both dogs. How much training do you do a day? Each puppy should be getting around 3-5 (depending how long you train) training sessions of 5-15 minutes per time.

Here's the leave it command franster was talking about for the poop problem...

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APBT
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Re: Looking for opinions

Postby APBT » Tue Nov 01, 2011 8:33 pm

Thanks for the replys! The places they run free would be on private country land (in sight) like I said im not happy when they even wonder in the back yard out of sight haha.. deffinetly not near roads or anything.. also they are set free at the dog park I bring them to so they can socialize.

I thought about controlling the intake of the dogs but her being a bigger dog breed I didnt want to under feed her. (Still learning) I give them one regular size dog bowl and let them each have half. The water I leave there so when there thirsty from playing and exersize they have it.. The cane just sucks it up so maybe i could limit the water for her.

I don't play favorites it may seem that way saying the cane ended up being my wifes (I mainly care for both).. or the fact I said the pitbull is perfect but I just felt she deserved the title haha. The cane corso I work with and am looking for info to help her.. Just kind of a nightmare sometimes. For instance, Just peed on my two front car seats a couple hours ago. I normaly have there cages in the car for legal and this reason. But didnt cause I was in a hurry and it was just down the street! but boy she cashed in on it!

And yes they are two very different dogs just unsure of the cane corso breed.. are these normal traits of one? Basicly just looking for any solid info! Thanks a bunch! and will definetly do the treat for training.. guess I must reward her to come to me. :cheers:

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Re: Looking for opinions

Postby FransterDoo » Tue Nov 01, 2011 9:00 pm

APBT wrote:
I thought about controlling the intake of the dogs but her being a bigger dog breed I didnt want to under feed her. (Still learning) I give them one regular size dog bowl and let them each have half. The water I leave there so when there thirsty from playing and exersize they have it.. The cane just sucks it up so maybe i could limit the water for her.


If you do not portion meals for your dogs they will get fat. If you do not separate them, one day your pit bull will get tired of her sister eating her food and try to kick her ass. Then you have a) vet bills and b) 2 dogs that hate each other or dead dogs.

_____________________________________________________

Let me re-state my post.

Buy 2 dog bowls.

Put each dog's meal in a bowl. The amount you give depends on the type and quality of the food. There should be suggested serving sizes on the side of the bag. Start there.

They do not have to get the same amount. My dogs each get different portions based on a number of factors including age, metabolism, activity level, etc. In addition, you do not want a fat puppy. It's bad for their growing joints so "underfeeding" should not be your biggest concern.

Float the food in water. Start with about 1 cup (8oz.).

Put one dog in one area and the other in a different area (like a laundry room, hall, anywhere behind a baby gate.

Deliver each dog's food bowl to that dog. Let them eat in peace.

When they are done, pick up the bowls.

Put up the water bowl for the next 15 minutes. Then when 15 minutes has gone by - put it back down.

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APBT
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Re: Looking for opinions

Postby APBT » Tue Nov 01, 2011 11:47 pm

FransterDoo wrote:
APBT wrote:
I thought about controlling the intake of the dogs but her being a bigger dog breed I didnt want to under feed her. (Still learning) I give them one regular size dog bowl and let them each have half. The water I leave there so when there thirsty from playing and exersize they have it.. The cane just sucks it up so maybe i could limit the water for her.


If you do not portion meals for your dogs they will get fat. If you do not separate them, one day your pit bull will get tired of her sister eating her food and try to kick her ass. Then you have a) vet bills and b) 2 dogs that hate each other or dead dogs.

_____________________________________________________

Let me re-state my post.

Buy 2 dog bowls.

Put each dog's meal in a bowl. The amount you give depends on the type and quality of the food. There should be suggested serving sizes on the side of the bag. Start there.

They do not have to get the same amount. My dogs each get different portions based on a number of factors including age, metabolism, activity level, etc. In addition, you do not want a fat puppy. It's bad for their growing joints so "underfeeding" should not be your biggest concern.

Float the food in water. Start with about 1 cup (8oz.).

Put one dog in one area and the other in a different area (like a laundry room, hall, anywhere behind a baby gate.

Deliver each dog's food bowl to that dog. Let them eat in peace.

When they are done, pick up the bowls.

Put up the water bowl for the next 15 minutes. Then when 15 minutes has gone by - put it back down.


Thanks for your replys! Working on it as we speak..

Why mix water with food?

Feel free to add anymore helpfull info and thanks everyone!

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Re: Looking for opinions

Postby rgyoung777 » Wed Nov 02, 2011 1:16 am

APBT wrote:For instance, Just peed on my two front car seats a couple hours ago. I normaly have there cages in the car for legal and this reason. But didnt cause I was in a hurry and it was just down the street! but boy she cashed in on it!


This could be an issue with Zara not being properly house-trained, but this, paired with her extreme water intake, could also possibly be a medical issue, so you will definitely want to make an appointment with your vet to rule that out. Urination can also be a sign of stress or anxiety, too, which might explain why she peed in the car.

Either way, whether it's medical or just a lack of understanding, she isn't doing any of this on purpose, and it's not something she can help. I know it's a frustrating issue to deal with, but blaming her or approaching it as though it is something she's doing deliberately isn't going to help matters at all. I don't know how old she is, but from your photos, it appears that Zara and Mercedes are both young puppies, and house-training issues are part and parcel of puppyhood. You need to have a consistent schedule for taking them out, especially Zara, who's having the most difficulty (again, once you've ruled out that there is no underlying medical issue). You can't expect her to hold it, at this point--you will need to be one step ahead of her, and really watch her at all times. Leash her to you if need be, and hurry her outside the minute you see her start to sniff around on the floor. Taking her out at least once an hour is probably a good schedule, at least to start off with, and on top of that, take her out every time she wakes up from a nap, a few minutes after eating/drinking, after playing, and definitely after being confined in her crate for any amount of time. Every time you take her out and she goes outside, praise her enthusiastically, give her treats, have a celebration. It may take her a while to understand the routine and that is way better to pee outside, but she will get it eventually, as long as you are consistent. With consistency, and as she matures, you will find that you can stretch the time between potty breaks longer and longer, but right now, you need to set the bar pretty low, along with your expectations.

In addition, you will want to make sure that your floors are well-cleaned with an enzymatic cleaner to ensure that there's no lingering odor of urine because that smell will also encourage her to pee indoors.


Overall, the "problems" you're having with Zara and the differences you're noticing between the two puppies are due more to the fact that they are both individuals than they are due to breed traits.

From what you've posted, I think some of the expectations you have for both of these very young, very untrained puppies are more than a little unreasonable and unrealistic, and I think everyone (puppies included) would be better served if you lowered your expectations.

Having dogs that are reliable offleash is an admirable goal, but not one that can be achieved overnight--it takes lots of patience, consistency, and training; even then, it's a risky thing to attempt. Of course they're going to wander if they're off leash! The outside world is incredibly exciting, stimulating, and full of all sorts of nifty, amazing things, especially to puppies! Also, I know that the dog park seems like a great place to socialize your puppies, but in truth, it's less than ideal, so hopefully you'll reconsider your dog park visits, and enroll them in a puppy kindergarten class instead. Socialization in a controlled, safe setting like a class will set your dogs up to succeed and give them great opportunities for learning appropriate doggy manners.

As others have already mentioned, expecting them to share their toys, and to share by eating from the same bowl is unrealistic and could trigger a fight between them later on. Feed them separately, in different rooms, or in their crates, so that they have a chance to enjoy their meals in a stress-free setting. Sharing is a concept that we as humans rarely do well at mastering, and it is an almost entirely foreign concept among most domestic dogs and cats.

After your puppy kindergarten class, consider a beginning obedience class for both dogs, with one dog handled by you, one by your wife. Look for a class that teaches using positive methods, and you will likely discover what motivates Zara (as well as Mercedes!) and helps her be attentive and tuned into you and your wife. It's not that she's "not listening" to you--it's that she doesn't understand what you want, and that she's a puppy; puppies are notorious for having short attention spans.

If you can find a way to be more patient with Zara, to change your immediate expectations about offleash obedience to long-term goals, and make some of the changes folks have suggested in their feeding routines, I think things might be a little less stressful for you. Instead of measuring Zara against Mercedes and finding her lacking, recognize that Zara is her own dog, just like Mercedes, and she is going to grow up to be a different, but equally wonderful individual. It may take a different approach or more "work" on your part to find out what makes her tick, but she's worth the time and effort, just as much as Mercedes is.

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trexgorawrrrrr
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Re: Looking for opinions

Postby trexgorawrrrrr » Wed Nov 02, 2011 2:07 am

:goodpost: :goodpost:

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Jazzy
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Re: Looking for opinions

Postby Jazzy » Wed Nov 02, 2011 5:39 am

I think you have gotten wonderful advice.

I agree that all dogs are individuals; and while I can understand the natural tendency to want to compare them...that is neither fair or helpful.

All the issues you discuss with the Cane are issues that you can completely control through training and management. (Don't know if it's been mentioned already; but I would definitely get a handle on the whole eating issue by feeding separately as I forsee a nasty fight breaking out over that in the future).

Did I miss how old they are? As someone else said they look like puppies. Dogs change and their personalities/temperments develop as they mature and they go through some "interesting" :) developmental stages. I wouldn't get too excited about the "perfect pit" just yet because the "perfect pit" could well be your "perfect adolescent nightmare from hell". :))

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Amie
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Re: Looking for opinions

Postby Amie » Wed Nov 02, 2011 6:05 am

APBT wrote:I don't play favorites

the pitbull is perfect
The cane corso .. Just kind of a nightmare sometimes.

Yeah, my parents didn't play favorites just like you aren't. Right. lol

just unsure of the cane corso breed.. are these normal traits of one?


Now that the dog is in your house it doesn't really matter if they're the normal traits of a cane corso or not. They're the normal traits of THIS dog, and that's what you've got to deal with.

If you don't like the cane (and it's pretty clear you don't) keep him entirely separate from your dog, without exception, and have your wife deal with him, since you said he was hers.

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APBT
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Re: Looking for opinions

Postby APBT » Wed Nov 02, 2011 12:04 pm

rgyoung777 and jazzy Thanks for helpfull information!

Amie wrote:
APBT wrote:I don't play favorites

the pitbull is perfect
The cane corso .. Just kind of a nightmare sometimes.

Yeah, my parents didn't play favorites just like you aren't. Right. lol

just unsure of the cane corso breed.. are these normal traits of one?


Now that the dog is in your house it doesn't really matter if they're the normal traits of a cane corso or not. They're the normal traits of THIS dog, and that's what you've got to deal with.

If you don't like the cane (and it's pretty clear you don't) keep him entirely separate from your dog, without exception, and have your wife deal with him, since you said he was hers.


Amie it seems your a respected member of the forums although I don't see the need for flamming. Maybe you should take a step back and tell me something that would help. Its already been a previous issue that I replied too.

I should have left Mercedees out of this post all together..I should have made a different post elsewhere. Just added her as i'm a new member and wanna get pics out there. and state how I felt about her (the perfect title) Although no dog is perfect and she only knows two commands and is for the most part house broken.

Thanks for all the help. Mercedees is 6 months and Zara 5 months old.

I think everything hs been covered here. IF any more info or questions, feel free to post!

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jamielvsaustin
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Re: Looking for opinions

Postby jamielvsaustin » Wed Nov 02, 2011 12:58 pm

Hi and welcome, I haven't read your intro but it does sound like you're favoring the PB over the CC I guess it doesn't matter if you feel that way so long as your actions don't project that.

I found a couple stickies that I thought you might be interested in.
Dog park reality check
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=50274
^^^This one is probably the one I hope you read most. I too used to bring my dogs to the dog park, it wasn't until my husband read this sticky and I started seeing those exact negative things happening that we stopped going. There are other ways to socialize your dog-ways that are safe and controlled.

Critical Developmental Stages of Puppies
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=139802
^^^This one is a nice one to start with, might give you a better idea of what you're dealing with and what's to come.

Tips for socializing/training puppies
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=22235
^^^This one is similarly helpful for someone just beginning a puppy adventure.

NILIF
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=59697
^^^This is one on a style of training (nothing in life is free) that I think you'll see a lot of people on this board advocate for.

Dog language, a guide/article/whatever that I wrote
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=79428
^^Just more FYI type stuff. Nice to see pictures of the actual body language.


Resource guarding
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=146839
Breaking up a fight with 2 or 3 dogs
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=79642
^^^And then these two seem important for you to read, because you're dealing with resource guarding currently and it sounds like you're very close to having a fight on your hands.

Regarding the potty training, I want to echo what others have said concerning a vet visit. You've got to make sure something isn't wrong. A schedule is helpful, so is leashing the dog to you so you know when she's got to go. It is generally accepted that a dog can hold its bladder based on the number of months old it is plus one. (2 months old plus 1=the dog can hold it 3 hours) But that has to be taught. Your dog might not know where her bathroom is, so for her it's everywhere and anywhere.

Two other points I'd like to make (and I'm sure I'm just reiterating what's been said) are:
1) Dogs don't think like people do. They don't do things on purpose or spitefully. Their brains simply don't work that way. They only do what's rewarding to them, it's your job as their owner to teach them the behaviors you find acceptable are more rewarding than the ones you don't like. (as a side note, they are masters of reading body language, so when you hear someone say-my dog knows what they did was wrong-look at how they acted when I found this bad thing...the dog doesn't associate tearing up your favorite book with being bad, they associate your pissed off tone, the way you're standing and the angry lines on your face to mean OHSHIT I have no idea how he's going to react, I better seem appeasing)
2) You can't expect that your dog knows something. You have to train it. And you can't simply tell your dog no and think s/he understands. You have to give her an alternate behavior---No, don't chew on my book, here have this toy. No, don't run away from me in the yard, here stand right here while I feed you treats.

Good luck, I hope you get it together and your house can live in harmony. It's important for these dogs (really any dog) to have good (and sometimes overly) responsible homes. Everyone starts somewhere, it's good that you're asking for help, not everyone does.


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