My arms are sore!

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Kazzy
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My arms are sore!

Postby Kazzy » Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:51 am

Alrighty...My big guy, Jax, who just recently (almost a week now) joined my family, is one heck of a puller on his leash. It's KILLING me!

I've read through the thread about training on the leash, but do have a few questions and wasn't sure if anyone would see that thread bumped back up, so decided to start my own (hope that's ok!).

#1 - Currently I'm using a harness and a, I believe, 6ft leash. These came with Jax when he came home. I want to avoid chokers/prongs/etc. collars, and will be probably be investing in a martingale collar (as well as a regular flat collar). Will the harness work right now for the training process?

#2 - Should I be using a specific kind of leash?

#3 - Occasionally Jax will be just sniffing around, then suddenly he'll leap forward, just out of no where. Why in the world is he doing this? There is never anything specific he's leaping at, he just bounds forward like he's about to chase something...but nothing is there.

#4 - Earlier he scared the crap out of me. All of a sudden he turned and just attacked his leash. He's never done this. He would grab the leash and just flail around, jerking it this way and that way, all the while growling. What would cause this and what can I do to get this to stop? I'm trying the '2 week break' with him, but I just can't let him do that out in public. It's bad enough he wants to drag me down the street, it's another thing altogether to suddenly attack his leash.

#5 - When he pulls, I stand still, but he doesn't come back to me. He'll just walk circles around me, sometimes behind me, then will jerk that way. Do I still just stand there when this happens, or should I show him where to go? When he moves behind me and jerks, I honestly think he could seriously pull my arm out of socket, which I would just so love to avoid!

Thanks :D

Foxy Roxy
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Re: My arms are sore!

Postby Foxy Roxy » Sat Dec 03, 2011 6:13 am

I had a few of those issues myself.

If the dog loves to play, run, etc, play with the dog till he's pooped. Let him take a couple minute breather and commence the walk. If Roxy is on my left, the leash is tight in my right hand and also gripped with my left. I keep my left hand in one place, and Roxy on a short but not tight leash. Always a couple inches to spare. When she pulled I simply held my grip, gave two tugs on the leash, and gave her a stern "no" at the same time. Only once did she throw a tantrum and go for the leash. I surprised her with a light tap on the side and she let go, I took up the slack on the leash, and again responded with a stern "no". That was the end of it.

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Re: My arms are sore!

Postby Foxy Roxy » Sat Dec 03, 2011 6:31 am

GRRR I had so much more written!!!

Sorry to not answer any of your questions, I'll type it all up again later. Must sleep now.

Kazzy
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Re: My arms are sore!

Postby Kazzy » Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:51 pm

I'm trying to avoid any negative reinforcement (yanking the leash). Hoping to do this as positive as possible, and just ignore him when he's being bad (hence why I just stop moving when he's pulling). Thanks :)

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MarMar
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Re: My arms are sore!

Postby MarMar » Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:01 pm

When I walk my shepherd who loves to pull, I put on a harness and let her have at it. (This only works in an area where you are able to walk without your dog interfering with others of course!) She certainly can walk at a heel, its not GREAT but we have a Rally Obedience title so she knows somewhat. If this is an option, then consider walking for exercise and fun on a harness, and save the collar for teaching him how to actually walk on a loose leash when that situation arises. It makes me terribly sad to see people walking dogs on buckle collars that are straining at the leash...fun for no one and harmful to your training (and possibly to your dog's health). In terms of actually teaching your dog to walk nicely with a collar on, I would check out Kikopup's videos on Loose Leash Walking and Shirley Chong's Silky Leash Method:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFgtqgiAKoQ

http://ahimsadogtraining.com/blog/2008/ ... lky-leash/

If your eventual goal is to walk always on a collar with no pulling, this is possible for sure! I take Becky on harness walks because she enjoys pulling and sniffing and so when manners aren't important I like to let her engage in this behavior.

I think the WORST thing to do is to always walk a dog on a collar and sometimes let them pull and sometimes expect them to keep slack on the leash. This must be terribly confusing.

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Leslie H
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Re: My arms are sore!

Postby Leslie H » Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:02 pm

I'd advise waiting and suffering for a while longer. The behavior you're describing sounds like exhuberant play, but I think you should let the 2 week shut down continue before you begin traing, especially something that could lead to frustration for both of you. As you are in the middle of the 2 week shut down, I'd try to minimize how much time he's out in public.

Kazzy
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Re: My arms are sore!

Postby Kazzy » Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:24 pm

MarMar wrote:When I walk my shepherd who loves to pull, I put on a harness and let her have at it. (This only works in an area where you are able to walk without your dog interfering with others of course!) She certainly can walk at a heel, its not GREAT but we have a Rally Obedience title so she knows somewhat. If this is an option, then consider walking for exercise and fun on a harness, and save the collar for teaching him how to actually walk on a loose leash when that situation arises. It makes me terribly sad to see people walking dogs on buckle collars that are straining at the leash...fun for no one and harmful to your training (and possibly to your dog's health). In terms of actually teaching your dog to walk nicely with a collar on, I would check out Kikopup's videos on Loose Leash Walking and Shirley Chong's Silky Leash Method:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFgtqgiAKoQ

http://ahimsadogtraining.com/blog/2008/ ... lky-leash/

If your eventual goal is to walk always on a collar with no pulling, this is possible for sure! I take Becky on harness walks because she enjoys pulling and sniffing and so when manners aren't important I like to let her engage in this behavior.

I think the WORST thing to do is to always walk a dog on a collar and sometimes let them pull and sometimes expect them to keep slack on the leash. This must be terribly confusing.


Thanks so much! Yes, I want him to walk nicely at all times, and only leave 'heel' when told he can, but still cannot pull. Basically, he's allowed to sniff around and check things out only when I say it's ok, but he still cannot pull me. When I do this, he'll be on a longer leash, so he can venture out a bit more.

Leslie H wrote:I'd advise waiting and suffering for a while longer. The behavior you're describing sounds like exhuberant play, but I think you should let the 2 week shut down continue before you begin traing, especially something that could lead to frustration for both of you. As you are in the middle of the 2 week shut down, I'd try to minimize how much time he's out in public.


Thanks :D Yes, right now, I think I'll just give him time to settle in. I don't have a yard myself, but do have a friend that will let me use their's once I want to actually start this training 'hardcore'. That way I'll have some space, and be away from public just walking by, and limit distractions until he's ready. Right now, he stays out of public as much as possible. With my work schedule it is fairly easy to do so (2nd/3rd shift) so his potty outings and short walks are during the night.

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Shoshana
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Re: My arms are sore!

Postby Shoshana » Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:45 pm

Kinda sounds like he needs to go to your friend's yard and get his zoomie on.

I'm not an expert and I'd wait till the two weeks is up but you might get better results if he's a little tired from zooming around and playing fetch.

Don't worry - it will get better!!! We have a puller and now she has gotten to the point where she won't pull on her daily walks. She still will pull when she is really excited - when we see a person or dog she thinks will play with her mostly. We use a harness as main with a martingale as backup. We have a 4 ft leash and we shorten it in stores and in crowds. On her walks she never heels but we never asked her to we just don't want her pulling.

Kazzy
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Re: My arms are sore!

Postby Kazzy » Tue Dec 06, 2011 4:10 pm

Shoshana wrote:Kinda sounds like he needs to go to your friend's yard and get his zoomie on.

I'm not an expert and I'd wait till the two weeks is up but you might get better results if he's a little tired from zooming around and playing fetch.

Don't worry - it will get better!!! We have a puller and now she has gotten to the point where she won't pull on her daily walks. She still will pull when she is really excited - when we see a person or dog she thinks will play with her mostly. We use a harness as main with a martingale as backup. We have a 4 ft leash and we shorten it in stores and in crowds. On her walks she never heels but we never asked her to we just don't want her pulling.


Haha you're probably right. I took him to a park the other night (no one is there at this time) and we went for short runs through it. Killed my knee but I think he loved it! Thanks :)

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ames
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Re: My arms are sore!

Postby ames » Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:39 pm

I had a similar problem, but once my boy was neutered he was able to focus more intently and listen easier it seemed, like his focus could be more directed at listening to me than marking everything we passed.

I used this for a while, but didn't like the lack of security, so some people use this with a harness just in case. It basically leads with the nose, which they naturally follow and not the neck, which gives them strength with a harness or normal collar.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6XMb2XRVVs

I also used this leash now because it really helps with the arm wripping out of socket, I get to brace him, try to recall him back before he gets to the end and BOINGSSSS back to me lol

http://www.amazon.com/Leash-Black-Bunge ... 645&sr=1-2

I also find if I carry cheese I can get him to listen better (my boy is not really treat motivated, but cheese he loves) so I just keep a stick in my hand and if I need to call him back or get him to heel he listens way better for a pay out like cheese.

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Celesteandthebullies
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Re: My arms are sore!

Postby Celesteandthebullies » Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:14 pm

If you want to try a head collar, stay away from Gentle Leaders, they're not very padded nor are they as secure.
Get a Halti, they're more padded and connect to the collar.
And read this
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=77551
Image
But a lot of people tend to rely on these, so I'd try the other methods first.


Edit: I didn't see the videos above, those are great. :) So I deleted that paragraph. lol

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Stormi
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My arms are sore!

Postby Stormi » Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:43 pm

Celesteandthebullies wrote:If you want to try a head collar, stay away from Gentle Leaders, they're not very padded nor are they as secure.


Also, depending upon your own personal ethics, the gentle leader is manufactured by Premier, who not long ago was bought out by and is now owned and produced by a shock collar company.

The Comfort Trainer is also an alternative option, same idea as the GL but more padding and slightly better designed.

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Curly_07
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Re: My arms are sore!

Postby Curly_07 » Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:07 pm

Stormi wrote:
Celesteandthebullies wrote:If you want to try a head collar, stay away from Gentle Leaders, they're not very padded nor are they as secure.


Also, depending upon your own personal ethics, the gentle leader is manufactured by Premier, who not long ago was bought out by and is now owned and produced by a shock collar company.

The Comfort Trainer is also an alternative option, same idea as the GL but more padding and slightly better designed.


Can you find the Comfort Trainer at pet stores? I've never seen it. I just looked online and saw it's $30 from their site, but didn't see any distributors. I'm wanting to try this on one of my girls either way.

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Stormi
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My arms are sore!

Postby Stormi » Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:26 pm

Curly_07 wrote:
Can you find the Comfort Trainer at pet stores? I've never seen it. I just looked online and saw it's $30 from their site, but didn't see any distributors. I'm wanting to try this on one of my girls either way.


Not that I know of. As far as I'm aware they're only available online. It'd be wonderful if pet stores started carrying them, but I haven't seen it yet.

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AllisonPitbullLvr
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Re: My arms are sore!

Postby AllisonPitbullLvr » Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:54 pm

Celesteandthebullies wrote:If you want to try a head collar, stay away from Gentle Leaders, they're not very padded nor are they as secure.
Get a Halti, they're more padded and connect to the collar.
And read this
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=77551
Image
But a lot of people tend to rely on these, so I'd try the other methods first.


Edit: I didn't see the videos above, those are great. :) So I deleted that paragraph. lol


I Disagree with the halti vs. Gentle leader thing. Obi has slipped out of his padded Halti a few times and the little "security clip" that comes with it is too flimsy to actually hold him. Also, while the padding is nice, in theory, I found that the halti was more likely to ride up and obstruct his vision.

Since he's used to a harness already, have you tried a front-clip harness such as the easy walk? I walk a Dane who outweighs me using one of these and have had good success with it.


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