Help... dogfight

Tricks, obedience, behavior, and more.
User avatar
MkatUmich
Newborn Bully
Posts: 134
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:48 am

Help... dogfight

Postby MkatUmich » Sun Mar 11, 2012 10:13 pm

so my two angels decided to try and kill each other today. im typing this one handed as i took some collateral damage in breaking them up. I saw it all happen so im fairly confident i know what triggered it, wasnt normal play, which can get rough but is typically mutual. This was Gauge playing tugowar with me and Starry sometimes chases Gauge during this and bites him and generally pisses him off. Usually Gauge snarls and chases her off. This time it didnt end there and i got an $800 vet bill and a mauled left arm. Question is, where do I go from here? two week seperation? crate and rotate for that period? Obviously dont put them in that same situation again, usually during flirtpole or tugowar is when that happens. They are usually really good together, cuddle all the time, play etc... One of the rescue guys is going to see us for behavior stuff i guess.

User avatar
Madeleinemom
Adolescent Bully
Posts: 367
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2003 5:51 pm
Location: EU or something like that

Re: Help... dogfight

Postby Madeleinemom » Sun Mar 11, 2012 10:19 pm

I hope you and the 'Angels' feel better soon.

I'd definitely remove the exposure to trigger points, and I'd separate, crate and rotate for some time for now ... each dog is different and yours may see a peaceful relationship again after a while (minus triggers), but they may not.

From my own experience, after a fight between two of ours, their relationship never recuperated, and it was crate/rotate for us, as they did not even need triggers to set them off; however, I am not saying that will be the case for you and yours.

User avatar
Celesteandthebullies
Addicted to PBF
Posts: 4622
Joined: Mon May 17, 2010 8:40 pm
Location: Anderson, California
Contact:

Re: Help... dogfight

Postby Celesteandthebullies » Sun Mar 11, 2012 10:28 pm

I'd definitely separate them, you want to let the adrenaline get out of their system.

I have seen dogs be okay after fights, however it greatly varies from dog-dog, sometimes they'll get along but the triggers are much easier set off.

User avatar
Poohs Dad
Matured Bully
Posts: 435
Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:36 am
Location: Maryland Eastern shore

Re: Help... dogfight

Postby Poohs Dad » Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:20 am

Celesteandthebullies wrote:I'd definitely separate them, you want to let the adrenaline get out of their system.

I have seen dogs be okay after fights, however it greatly varies from dog-dog, sometimes they'll get along but the triggers are much easier set off.


X 2

User avatar
BrokenAquarian
Addicted to PBF
Posts: 11122
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2006 8:43 pm
Location: 39° 24′ 35″ N, 123° 21′ 20″ W

Re: Help... dogfight

Postby BrokenAquarian » Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:11 pm

It's VERY important that you have control of the situation with multiple dogs at all times. It's important to stop situations before they begin.

MkatUmich wrote: This was Gauge playing tugowar with me and Starry sometimes chases Gauge during this and bites him and generally pisses him off. Usually Gauge snarls and chases her off.


This shouldn't happen. The second you see Starry even wanting to get in the middle of your play time with Gauge - you tell her to go away/lay down/ect. You do not let one dog torment/upset/hurt the other.

It's not Guage's job to chase Starry away. It's your job to protect both dogs, by not allowing either of them to harass the other - resulting in fights and bad relationships.

It's the owner's job to keep the peace and protect all dogs in the household. :) Prevention is key.

User avatar
Ilovethepits
Addicted to PBF
Posts: 16038
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 1:43 pm
Location: Sitting on a Gold Mine

Re: Help... dogfight

Postby Ilovethepits » Tue Mar 13, 2012 2:45 pm

I'm sorry your dogs got in a fight and hurt each other and you.
I am glad it wasn't any worse.
I think the advice you have gotten is great and hope you are able to keep both of your dogs.

My dogs have never drawn blood but gotten into a couple scuffles. They are separated by metal gates any time I am not at home or when I am taking a shower, etc.

I've found the hardest thing is explaining that to other people and that it is very important.

Also my dogs are not even pit bulls, they are mixed mutts but one is 20 lbs heavier and 4 years younger than the other and she can get bossy. Also now my smaller male is 11 and he doesn't want to play much anymore so if she tries to get up in his face I have to make her stop.

Again, I hope you can keep both your "angels" and I hope your arm heals up fine. You should probably get a break stick and learn how to use it if you don't have one.

User avatar
MkatUmich
Newborn Bully
Posts: 134
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:48 am

Re: Help... dogfight

Postby MkatUmich » Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:03 pm

so we have been trying to socialize them again in small bits. First I took Gauge for a run so he wouldnt be hyper, then we let them kind of hang out, they mostly licked each other, sniffed, licked wounds etc... Did this for a little, then gave them a break, then did it again a little bit later and while they were licking each other around the muzzles Starry suddenly barred her teeth. No growling, no change in posture, just all of a sudden I see her teeth. Well seperated them immediately and now Gauge is back in his cage. Should I take this as a good sign? Bad sign?

User avatar
mtlu
Addicted to PBF
Posts: 5843
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:32 pm
Location: san francisco

Re: Help... dogfight

Postby mtlu » Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:49 am

It's only been a couple of days. There's no formula for how many days apart they need - it really depends on both of them and they may both recover in different ways/different time frames (i.e. one might bounce back fine and still be friendly but the other dog may no longer be tolerant – and there's also no way of predicting which dog will wind up being which).

Do you have an area of the house where you can put up a baby gate and keep them separated but able to see each other? That can be a good way to allow them to see each other but not have to share immediate space and having gates can go a long way towards peace of mind when you have multiple dogs and are busy doing things. Dogs can still get at each other through a gate but at least it will be a little easier to separate them if need be. Many members here with multiple dogs have gates set up in their homes. It also allows each dog to be more comfortable without having to be crated for long periods.

User avatar
MkatUmich
Newborn Bully
Posts: 134
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:48 am

Re: Help... dogfight

Postby MkatUmich » Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:05 pm

Well Starry is showing alot of signs of being under stress. She always was stressed and skittish but with the fight there is no doubt she has regressed. I think we are definitely going to do a shutdown, she can't be super active with her stitches in anyways. I don't really have a seperate room so there is a sheet over her cage right now. I just feel so bad because she had really turned into a happy dog before this incident.

User avatar
Maximus
Newborn Bully
Posts: 38
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 12:54 pm
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Help... dogfight

Postby Maximus » Sat Mar 17, 2012 5:52 am

I would say DO NOT SEPARATE. Your supposed to correct them and stop the problem at level one. Whoever started the fight, closely watch him/her. Before the fight starts stop it. keep repeating the "scene" where the fight started to brew. This should fix the problem within a few days. If you separate them all your doing is avoiding the problem. Also since its a first time happening, this should be fixed very fast.

User avatar
jamielvsaustin
Moderator
Posts: 6369
Joined: Thu May 08, 2008 9:13 am
Location: Palm Bay Florida

Help... dogfight

Postby jamielvsaustin » Sat Mar 17, 2012 7:11 am

***sings*** One of these is not like the other.

Maximus how can you offer advise like that when you don't even know what it looks like when your dog plays with another. Perhaps a little more research is in order for you. It is our job as an owner to protect these dogs. If the OP left his dogs to work it out and only stepped in when a fight broke out, he'd likely have a dead dog within a week.

User avatar
Maximus
Newborn Bully
Posts: 38
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 12:54 pm
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Help... dogfight

Postby Maximus » Sat Mar 17, 2012 8:12 am

jamielvsaustin wrote:***sings*** One of these is not like the other.

Maximus how can you offer advise like that when you don't even know what it looks like when your dog plays with another. Perhaps a little more research is in order for you. It is our job as an owner to protect these dogs. If the OP left his dogs to work it out and only stepped in when a fight broke out, he'd likely have a dead dog within a week.

The way I see it, dogs always fight when they are in packs. They get over it because the leader does not allow it.

User avatar
Amie
Moderator
Posts: 17463
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:10 pm
Contact:

Re: Help... dogfight

Postby Amie » Sat Mar 17, 2012 8:29 am

It's really super that you see it that way. It would be even more super if that were anywhere close to the truth, if pack theory hadn't been disproven time and time and time again, and your advice here wouldn't cause someone less experienced to end up with a dead pet.

User avatar
MarMar
Bully Lover 4 Life
Posts: 1114
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 1:18 am
Location: Sooke, BC

Re: Help... dogfight

Postby MarMar » Sat Mar 17, 2012 11:46 am

Maximus wrote:
jamielvsaustin wrote:***sings*** One of these is not like the other.

Maximus how can you offer advise like that when you don't even know what it looks like when your dog plays with another. Perhaps a little more research is in order for you. It is our job as an owner to protect these dogs. If the OP left his dogs to work it out and only stepped in when a fight broke out, he'd likely have a dead dog within a week.

The way I see it, dogs always fight when they are in packs. They get over it because the leader does not allow it.


Yes, sorry. Dogs do not have the pack structure you are thinking of (the one that is perpetuated by certain uneducated, smooth talking TV celebrities) and even if they did, the "leader doesn't allow it" concept is also false. In addition, there is a huge difference between tiny disagreements between dogs that live together and all out, vet-visit inducing brawls.

User avatar
Stormi
Addicted to PBF
Posts: 5078
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 1:05 am
Location: Seattle
Contact:

Help... dogfight

Postby Stormi » Sat Mar 17, 2012 1:25 pm

Maximus wrote:I would say DO NOT SEPARATE. Your supposed to correct them and stop the problem at level one. Whoever started the fight, closely watch him/her. Before the fight starts stop it. keep repeating the "scene" where the fight started to brew. This should fix the problem within a few days. If you separate them all your doing is avoiding the problem. Also since its a first time happening, this should be fixed very fast.


This is very dangerous advice. Properly planned behavior modification protocols all include some level of management. It has nothing to do with avoidance, it has everything to do with keeping the animal(s) in question safe and disallow the possibility of reengagement of the behavior(s). In the event of a dog fight, "you", the supposed leader, is completely irrelevant to the argument, and the suggestion of placing these dogs in the same scenario for the exact purpose of failure is just stupid.

OP - where are you located? I'd be happy to suggest a qualified behavior consultant who can assist you with reintroduction.


Return to “Training and Behavior”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest