Dogs that bite - a debate about training or lack of

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randomroads
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Dogs that bite - a debate about training or lack of

Postby randomroads » Wed Nov 07, 2012 4:24 pm

A friend's Cane Corso bit one of her children, but it did not require medical attention. I did not see the wound but it sounds superficial with slightly broken skin. The dog is up to date on his shots. Now the woman wants to get rid of her dog because she can't trust him. She has told me and several friends that 'The dog respect my husband and I, but not the children. I left the 16 year old in charge of the younger kids while I ran an errand and came back to find that one of the little ones had been bitten. I know it's my fault and I shouldn't have left him with the kids because I know he doesn't respect them and the 16 year old is too soft to really control him.'

She has told us that she worked with a trainer who trains Search and Rescue dogs and things got better but they're still not 'good enough.' I'm not sure what that means.

I think the woman is incredibly lucky the dog hasn't seriously hurt someone yet. He weighs 140 pounds and could easily kill a small child because of LACK OF TRAINING to respect ALL humans and not just the adults.

What do you think?

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Re: Dogs that bite - a debate about training or lack of

Postby AllisonPitbullLvr » Wed Nov 07, 2012 5:24 pm

I think sometimes when a dog bites a member of the family, the bond is irretrievably broken and it's in everyone's best interest for the dog to be rehomed of possible.

To me, it sounds like your friend is already checked out.

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Re: Dogs that bite - a debate about training or lack of

Postby mtlu » Wed Nov 07, 2012 5:42 pm

What does lack of respect of all humans mean? How does one teach that to a dog (or any other animal, or human being, for that matter)?

I can and have worked with my dog to let her know that things like jumping up on people is unacceptable behavior; accidentally getting my hand with her teeth while playing tug means that tugging stops until I decide it's time to play again; getting up in my face while I'm trying to eat is also unacceptable but laying on the floor staring at me with big puppy dog eyes is ok; etc etc. She has been taught (and needs reminders in some areas) of what actions are unacceptable; but respect? That can mean a lot of different things depending on who you talk to...

It takes TWO to tango, or get in a fight, or have an incident – what about respecting the dog (or animal or human being) and their individual disposition/temperament/tolerances/level of training/education?

The expectation that any living creature MUST respect humans above all else and that respect needs to be an inherent trait is just silly...

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Re: Dogs that bite - a debate about training or lack of

Postby LizIs » Wed Nov 07, 2012 5:44 pm

I agree. It sounds like she just doesn't want the dog anymore. :dunno:

But I'm wondering, how old was the child that was bitten? Was the 16 yr old actually supervising at the time or just somewhere in the house not watching? If the 16 year old is "too soft to control him" that sounds like a really untrained animal. A dog should recognize family as family, not just obey the adults.

At any rate, I think their assumption that "respect" = not biting is faulty. I agree with your theory that it's a matter of lack of training. "Respect" is a human concept.

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Re: Dogs that bite - a debate about training or lack of

Postby randomroads » Wed Nov 07, 2012 7:24 pm

I don't know for sure, but I'm going to assume that 'respect' means allowing people to do whatever they want to him (the dog). That's what everyone who said 'the dog needs to respect children' seemed to be getting at, anyway. The owner claims her children don't bully the dog, but didn't say what actually caused the bite. She also didn't say if the 16 year old was right there or not. The one that was bitten was 6.

I feel very frustrated about it all. I understand if she doesn't want the dog anymore, but her children are torn up over the idea that their dog is being sent away because he bit one of them. The bite was obviously not scary or severe enough to warrant the kids to be afraid of him or else the one that was bitten isn't telling the whole truth and realizes that the dog did it for a good reason. I like to think kids have better instincts about an animals intentions than adults do.

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Re: Dogs that bite - a debate about training or lack of

Postby LizIs » Wed Nov 07, 2012 7:47 pm

randomroads wrote:I don't know for sure, but I'm going to assume that 'respect' means allowing people to do whatever they want to him (the dog).


They can't expect a dog to allow absolutely everything. Every animal, no matter how docile, has limits. And a dog allowing you to pester it doesn't mean it "respects" you. Chances are the 6 year pushed it too far and got a warning snap that made contact.

The bite was obviously not scary or severe enough to warrant the kids to be afraid of him or else the one that was bitten isn't telling the whole truth and realizes that the dog did it for a good reason. I like to think kids have better instincts about an animals intentions than adults do.


Kids only know as much about an animal's intentions as they are taught by their parents... who don't seem to have a very firm grasp on it themselves. :( IF the kids have been getting the impression that the dog needs to "respect" them and that pestering the poor creature to its limits is one path to that goal... I can't see a bite NOT happening at some point.

I'm with you, though. It sounds very frustrating. Either those parents need some major education or... that dog needs a more dog savvy home. :dunno:

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Re: Dogs that bite - a debate about training or lack of

Postby LizIs » Wed Nov 07, 2012 7:48 pm

randomroads wrote:I don't know for sure, but I'm going to assume that 'respect' means allowing people to do whatever they want to him (the dog).


They can't expect a dog to allow absolutely everything. Every animal, no matter how docile, has limits. And a dog allowing you to pester it doesn't mean it "respects" you. Chances are the 6 year pushed it too far and got a warning snap that made contact.

The bite was obviously not scary or severe enough to warrant the kids to be afraid of him or else the one that was bitten isn't telling the whole truth and realizes that the dog did it for a good reason. I like to think kids have better instincts about an animals intentions than adults do.


Kids only know as much about an animal's intentions as they are taught by their parents... who don't seem to have a very firm grasp on it themselves. :( IF the kids have been getting the impression that the dog needs to "respect" them and that pestering the poor creature to its limits is one path to that goal... I can't see a bite NOT happening at some point.

I'm with you, though. It sounds very frustrating. Either those parents need some major education or... that dog needs a more dog savvy home. :dunno:

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Re: Dogs that bite - a debate about training or lack of

Postby BrokenAquarian » Wed Nov 07, 2012 8:21 pm

Many dogs know how to do things and behave, but don't act accordingly with people that aren't their owners. They may be polite, but they won't listen to them.

That may be percieved as "lack of respect".

I think the woman knows that she's in a dangerous situation and is doing the right thing. As long as the dog goes to someone knowlegable, the situation is fine.

A 16 year old is not legally responsible for an animal. It's the adult who is - so the dog is not the kid's responsiblity - no matter how much the parent wants it to be.

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Re: Dogs that bite - a debate about training or lack of

Postby MissKitty » Thu Nov 08, 2012 12:32 am

I think if a 140 dog wanted to do any sort of serious damage, it would have been done.
Dogs don't miss, for the child to only have a superficial wound, it was an *very* inhibited bite.

Is there any more about the situation? Where they playing? Was the dog resource guarding? Prior incidences? Training done thus far?

It sounds like the dog would be better off in a knowledgeable home and this woman should stick to dogs of the stuffed variety.

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Re: Dogs that bite - a debate about training or lack of

Postby randomroads » Thu Nov 08, 2012 9:44 am

What I told you was all I know about the situation. The dog is three and in that time she's gotten the help of a trainer who does Search and Rescue, but I have no idea what the dog was taught except that he knows basic commands like sit, down, heel, stay and a few pet tricks too. She said he 'got better' while doing the training but that ended and they kind of hit a stall out. The dog didn't get worse, but he didn't continue to improve.

I agree that it was an inhibited bite, but he's large enough to do significant damage if he decides to bite harder. I'm not saying larger dogs are more dangerous than medium sized dogs, just that ALL dogs need to be taught manners AND supervised around kids, but especially larger dogs.

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Re: Dogs that bite - a debate about training or lack of

Postby Stormi » Thu Nov 08, 2012 1:01 pm

randomroads wrote: just that ALL dogs need to be taught manners


While it seems we have no idea what led up to the bite in this case, there's a big difference between "manners" and a dog being failed and placed in a situation where they are forced to defend themselves.

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Re: Dogs that bite - a debate about training or lack of

Postby Celesteandthebullies » Thu Nov 08, 2012 2:18 pm

Stormi wrote:
randomroads wrote: just that ALL dogs need to be taught manners


While it seems we have no idea what led up to the bite in this case, there's a big difference between "manners" and a dog being failed and placed in a situation where they are forced to defend themselves.

This.

Training isn't going to play a large role with a dog biting, unless you're using suppressive methods. But "lack of training" being an issue would be the education of the human. Stress signs/warnings being ignored, boundaries being pushed, even if they're not over the top, but constant, the dog,most likely, will eventually be pushed to the point to say "Hey, knock it off". And since they can't talk like us, we go "Oh my god! It bit a kid!" not educate themselves or their kids on what caused it and how to avoid it.

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Re: Dogs that bite - a debate about training or lack of

Postby MissKitty » Thu Nov 08, 2012 8:38 pm

Stormi wrote:
randomroads wrote: just that ALL dogs need to be taught manners


While it seems we have no idea what led up to the bite in this case, there's a big difference between "manners" and a dog being failed and placed in a situation where they are forced to defend themselves.


Yes.

No matter how many 'manners' or how much 'respect' you imbue in the dog, they still have a breaking point.

Are you wanting to help her? I am sure someone on here knows a CC rescue or a reputable trainer who could assist her.

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Re: Dogs that bite - a debate about training or lack of

Postby Enigma » Fri Nov 23, 2012 3:39 am

Why dogs bite 99% of the time? Because of human stupidity. Like this for example:

http://www.jokeroo.com/videos/animal/dog-afraid-of-baby.html

Hilarious isn't it? Idiots.

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Re: Dogs that bite - a debate about training or lack of

Postby Semper Bull » Fri Nov 23, 2012 1:00 pm

That video is alarming. The dog is being reinforced for growling and barking at the baby.


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