dog on dog agression advice needed asap

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jamielvsaustin
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Re: dog on dog agression advice needed asap

Postby jamielvsaustin » Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:21 pm

Hey! I just posted on your first intro-and talked about this possibly becoming a problem for your girls. First things first-RUN away from that vet. What the hell, a vet that advocates abuse??? Something is definitely wrong there, please get a new vet and tell everyone in town about that guy/gal.

I'd suggest against the shock collar, while it can be a very useful tool, it's easy to use inappropriately and your girls don't need it. What's happening is normal. It's part of owning a PB. If you're not interested in crate and rotate please look for a new home for one of your girls (preferable the younger one-they're easier to place) as soon as you can. Don't be frightened by crate and rotate, it's really easy and if you do it right, your dogs will get used to it. Also, if you don't want to crate and rotate, and you decide to give up one of your girls you shouldn't get another dog for as long as you own a PB type dog. It's very common for them to not get along with other dogs. They don't need doggy friends-they need people who love, understand and respect them!

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Amie
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Re: dog on dog agression advice needed asap

Postby Amie » Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:45 pm

Yes, run from that vet.

Here's the thing about shock collars - will they stop the behavior in that moment? Maybe, if it's not too far gone. But what they will DEFINITELY do is teach the dog being shocked that the other dog is a trigger for pain. That sure isn't going to make them get along in the future.

Find a force-free trainer - we can help you find someone if you aren't sure where to look - and keep the dogs completely separate until you get professional help.

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Mooresmajestic
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Re: dog on dog agression advice needed asap

Postby Mooresmajestic » Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:58 pm

Are either/both of the dogs spayed? Estrus (heat) cycles will play a big part in same sex aggression, especially if one or both are in pre-estrus or in estrus.

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Re: dog on dog agression advice needed asap

Postby BrokenAquarian » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:34 pm

I have two dogs who cannot be together. For now, they are rotated every three hours in and out of my bedroom. I'm moving soon and one will have upstairs and the other will be downstairs. I see nothing wrong with that - unless you don't plan on spending any time on one one floor of your home. I will be up and down all through the day.

It really does seem mean and unfair at first, until you realize how easy it is and how fast the dogs get used to it. How much safer it is for your dogs and how happy they are - opposed to how sad and neglected you thought they'd be. :)

As long as you can switch them out every few hours and spend quality time with both of them, it will be fine.
If you can't do that, do rehome one of your girls and don't replace her with another dog that you think will get along with the one you're keeping.

My dogs got along for 5 years before they became incompatible.

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Re: dog on dog agression advice needed asap

Postby sickmonkey » Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:58 am

I wouldn't use shock collars, butt-slaps, nose-flicks, or any kind of punishment tbh. Punishment isn't as effective as simply training the right behaviors and it can heighten an already excited/aggressive emotional state. If it were me I would find a different vet. Additionally, crating as punishment is a bad idea bc the crate should be a safe place that the dog wants to be in, and you don't want to poison it.

There are two things you can do. The first is doing everything you can to prevent aggression - remove toys, food, and anything they might fight over. Make sure they have plenty of space to get away from each other. if they have a conflict in a corner or little hallway they may feel there's no alternative but to fight.

The second thing is generally training them to listen to you. A properly trained dog should be able to ignore virtually anything if asked to. You shouldn't count on training to prevent a fight (they are pit bulls, after all) but you should work a lot on basic obedience: come, stay, sit, leave it, watch me, etc. Drill them on obedience individually and with different distractions until you can count on them to obey you in virtually any situation. Teach a general 'settle' command, and maybe a 'go to kennel'. If they are really keyed to your commands you can probably break up a snarly situation by just telling them to go to their own spaces.

It could be that you have to separate them 24/7. You should research the possibility (and make sure you know what to do if a fight does happen - look into getting a break stick and know how to use it). There are plenty of people on this board who have to keep their dogs entirely separated and, while it can take some getting used to, it isn't the end of the world and it doesn't mean you have to send one of them to the shelter.

hope that helped :tongue:

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Re: dog on dog agression advice needed asap

Postby Gxkon » Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:43 pm

That vet is a joke. This breed was made for dog on dog combat. That is something you cant train out of a dog. Crate and rotate is the best option. I used to have six adults at one time and i c&r the whole time with them it wasn't hard. If you are wanting to use a training tool such as a shock collar i would recommend a prong collar. That is my personal choice. I like that i am only a few feet from the dog. Their is no lag from using a remote. Plus the correction is immediate and the leash is back up. Some dogs get used to the shock and will keep going after the other dog. For some people a leash and a remote is to much to work with in a high stress situation.

Google that ish!!!!!!!!!!

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Re: dog on dog agression advice needed asap

Postby AllisonPitbullLvr » Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:45 pm

Prong collar, shock collar, what's the difference? Any form of "punishment" adds more negative associations to an already existing issue.

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Re: dog on dog agression advice needed asap

Postby Mooresmajestic » Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:43 pm

AllisonPibbleLvr wrote:Prong collar, shock collar, what's the difference? Any form of "punishment" adds more negative associations to an already existing issue.

And usually makes the dog aggression worse. It will also teach the dog to skip all of the warning signs (posturing, hackels, growling, etc) and skip straight to "business" since you are telling the dog not to do any of those things, but not telling him what to do instead.

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Re: dog on dog agression advice needed asap

Postby Gxkon » Sat Feb 09, 2013 2:12 am

AllisonPibbleLvr wrote:Prong collar, shock collar, what's the difference? Any form of "punishment" adds more negative associations to an already existing issue.


I stated the diffrences for me in my post

Mooresmajestic wrote:
AllisonPibbleLvr wrote:Prong collar, shock collar, what's the difference? Any form of "punishment" adds more negative associations to an already existing issue.

And usually makes the dog aggression worse. It will also teach the dog to skip all of the warning signs (posturing, hackels, growling, etc) and skip straight to "business" since you are telling the dog not to do any of those things, but not telling him what to do instead.


If done right it will not add more negative association to make the problem worse.
I gave advise that i got from a reputable trainer that worked for me.
My dog kilo turned hot on me almost 3 years ago. She is gamebred so she is more prone to jump on a dog quicker than most APBT'S. With the help of the trainer. I learned how to use a prong correctly, and worked with her untill her DA was more manageable. Before the training after she turned hot. I couldnt take her to places that had other dogs around. Like the vets office or to places doing cheap rabies shots. Now I can and she behaves. If I put a prong on her when going to places like that she is a perfect angel. If she didn't have that training then I wouldn't be able to take her anywhere with out a muzzle.
As far as difference between a prong and shock collar. I would say its what ever floats your boat. IMO a prong is more humane than repeated electrocution.
Google that ish!!!!!!!

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Amie
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Re: dog on dog agression advice needed asap

Postby Amie » Sat Feb 09, 2013 8:08 am

Gxkon wrote:
AllisonPibbleLvr wrote:Prong collar, shock collar, what's the difference? Any form of "punishment" adds more negative associations to an already existing issue.

If done right it will not add more negative association to make the problem worse.


How is this, exactly? Because I'm seeing a new trend of people saying that everyone else is using prongs and shock collars incorrectly, and that's what makes them inhumane and gives negative associations, but they do it "right" and don't have those issues. And the fact of the matter is that the science is the same, and you don't have to believe in it for it to affect you, so I'm really curious what "right" way manages to trump decades of scientific findings.

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Re: dog on dog agression advice needed asap

Postby AllisonPitbullLvr » Sat Feb 09, 2013 8:13 am

Using pain and discomfort to control your dog isn't training. It's using pain and discomfort to control your dog.

Let's call a spade a spade.

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jamielvsaustin
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Re: dog on dog agression advice needed asap

Postby jamielvsaustin » Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:37 pm

AllisonPibbleLvr wrote:Using pain and discomfort to control your dog isn't training. It's using pain and discomfort to control your dog.

Exactly! And proof of this is that Gxkon has to put a prong on his/her dog for it to behave like a perfect angel.

It's not really training at that point is it? It's more of a crutch.


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