TRAINERS TOLD ME TO EUTHANIZE!

Tricks, obedience, behavior, and more.
User avatar
Celesteandthebullies
Addicted to PBF
Posts: 4622
Joined: Mon May 17, 2010 8:40 pm
Location: Anderson, California
Contact:

Re: TRAINERS TOLD ME TO EUTHANIZE!

Postby Celesteandthebullies » Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:10 pm

You don't want to use punishment/painful stimuli of any sort when working with any sort of aggression.

Think of it this way, the mindset of the dog is "This person is bad and a danger, I need to make it go away", if pain is added it does nothing to address the mental state. You want to work to change the dog's emotional reactions so that bad becomes good. A lot of people like to us LAT which the dog is trained to look at the negative stimulus on cue and is rewarded each time, eventually to stimulus losing its negative association and gains a positive one.

That being said, when your dog isn't responding as you said "during protective times" that's because he's over threshold. You cannot properly work a dog, or any animal even humans when they're over threshold. In that situation distance needs to be increased.

What area do you live in? There are several people on here who know certified credentialed behaviorists all over the country. (A behaviorist is someone who actually went to school and studied dog behavior and is credentialed)

anaverageasian
Newborn Bully
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:35 pm

Re: TRAINERS TOLD ME TO EUTHANIZE!

Postby anaverageasian » Fri Mar 08, 2013 8:10 pm

I'd love to see pics. Sounds like a pretty mix.

User avatar
Leslie H
Moderator
Posts: 8937
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2004 1:06 pm

Re: TRAINERS TOLD ME TO EUTHANIZE!

Postby Leslie H » Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:57 pm

Hi, could you tell us a little more about yourself, so you can be given access? There's a sample intro sticky in this forum.

User avatar
PitBullMom
Newborn Bully
Posts: 23
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:32 pm

Re: TRAINERS TOLD ME TO EUTHANIZE!

Postby PitBullMom » Tue Mar 12, 2013 1:22 pm

I had two dogs like this. Both of them Rottweilers. I worked with multiple trainers as well. My female definitely had screws loose and I did wind up euth. her after she bit me severely in the leg. My male was an abuse case that I pulled out of a local shelter. He too was perfect in my home with me and my daughters but did not tolerate strangers or other dogs. Other than teaching him basic obedience, I chose to accept him as he was and not try to train his problems away, as temperament always trumps training. He lived happily in my home, in his own little bubble, for almost 9 years. I didn't take him out in public because it was too stressful for him and I didn't have company over, ever. It was my job to keep the public safe from my dog, and also to keep my dog safe from the public. It was a pretty extreme measure to take but one my family chose to adopt together. A dog like this is a lot of work to manage properly.

That being said, there are fates worse than death. Living inside your own head when the mere presence of strangers (human and canine) causes that much anxiety is pretty miserable. I know how I feel when I'm overly stressed, I can't imagine feeling that way and not knowing how to deal with it.

In your situation I would consult with a behaviorist and if that person suggested that I euth my dog I would do it. I would not want my dog to be able to hurt me or someone else because I didn't have the strength to do the right thing and let him go.

I don't envy your position. I've been there twice before and it was heartwrenching both times. Good luck to you and I wish you peace with whatever decision you make.

User avatar
creiter
Newborn Bully
Posts: 105
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:58 pm
Location: Central Illinois

Re: TRAINERS TOLD ME TO EUTHANIZE!

Postby creiter » Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:53 am

A lot of this sounds like my boy, Duke. Except he LOVES car rides :) I would never in a million years euthanize him. He has fear aggression towards new/strange things, but after meeting something once positively, he is your usual loving pitty. Read my threads for more info and what has/has not worked for me. I think you will find a lot of good stuff there.

I share your frustration in having a dog reactive in certain situations, when that is NOT the dog you know. It is very possible to manage though so take it one step at a time and always stay positive, both in your training methods and your own personal attitude. Your dog was brought to your life for a reason! Even if they are brats sometimes ... :) Thank you for being such a responsible, thoughtful owner. Keep it up and get some professional help (good help not that crap it sounds like you got!) and you should never think the word 'euthanize' again.

Good luck! Keep us updated!!

User avatar
creiter
Newborn Bully
Posts: 105
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:58 pm
Location: Central Illinois

Re: TRAINERS TOLD ME TO EUTHANIZE!

Postby creiter » Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:49 pm

Instead of the collar, I would google clicker training. It is the exact same concept but sound not anything physical, which will probably be more effective. It worked great for Duke! So you click at the good behavior and instantly treat (as opposed to a painless shock/treat combo). Also much cheaper I'm sure.

I can write more about the threshold/distance thing when I get off work, but again, read threads about Duke in the behavior section as everything I will say can be found there. LOTS of good stuff!

User avatar
Celesteandthebullies
Addicted to PBF
Posts: 4622
Joined: Mon May 17, 2010 8:40 pm
Location: Anderson, California
Contact:

Re: TRAINERS TOLD ME TO EUTHANIZE!

Postby Celesteandthebullies » Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:50 pm

dieselshuman wrote:Okay... so is this E-collar something I should try? I'm unfamiliar with a few terms... So what I got from this is that I'm almost giving him the right away to take control of the situation.. too much space to act on his own? So I need to keep him closer to me, focused on me, and put a bigger gap between us and the issue. I live in Grand Haven, Michigan... I've called and questioned, viewed facilities, and got references all trainers in West Michigan... kind of went obsessive about it but I've been sucked into the "I'm a professional trainer" line too many times.

Thanks, Nikkey.


No, you should not use a e-collar. You could potentially worsen it or turn him into a "time-bomb" since the warnings are being punished and the emotional reaction isn't being changed. (With aggression you want to make the bad thing a good thing to the dog)

It doesn't have anything to do with controlling the situation, dogs aren't controlling creatures. It's more of a "this thing is bad and I need to make it go before it hurts me(or my owner)"

What I mean when I say threshold is dogs have varying distances where they can be responsive to their handler around the negative stimuli. If the dog is too close and pushed over threshold they won't respond well, along with other things I mentioned, and it's not a good learning state since the dog is not thinking clearly. You want to give them more space away from the other dog(or human, or whatever) and let them calm down. It's hard to learn when you're frustrated right? When you're calm you're more receptive.

I'm not thinking a "professional trainer", but rather a behaviorist. Someone who went to college studying dog behavior and is credentialed in it. :)

Is this gal near you?
http://www.canineconsult.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here's another
http://www.aboutdogsllc.com/aboutward.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

User avatar
creiter
Newborn Bully
Posts: 105
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:58 pm
Location: Central Illinois

Re: TRAINERS TOLD ME TO EUTHANIZE!

Postby creiter » Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:52 pm

Celest, just to clarify, the OP is not talking about an e collar the same way you are. They mean a slight vibration used the same way a clicker is used, to indicate something positive is coming.

User avatar
PitBullMom
Newborn Bully
Posts: 23
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:32 pm

Re: TRAINERS TOLD ME TO EUTHANIZE!

Postby PitBullMom » Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:56 pm

You know your dog better than anyone. I hope you find the person who can help you help him. Good luck to you both!

User avatar
Celesteandthebullies
Addicted to PBF
Posts: 4622
Joined: Mon May 17, 2010 8:40 pm
Location: Anderson, California
Contact:

Re: TRAINERS TOLD ME TO EUTHANIZE!

Postby Celesteandthebullies » Wed Mar 13, 2013 7:12 pm

creiter wrote:Celest, just to clarify, the OP is not talking about an e collar the same way you are. They mean a slight vibration used the same way a clicker is used, to indicate something positive is coming.



Doesn't sound like it... Sounds like being used as a "attention getter" so to speak. Maybe I'm misinterpreting it. Even if I am, If some is going to use a e-collar no matter what, then proper guidance/education should be provided first. :Dunno:
Like giving him a little zap to make him look around and once he looks at me, I treat him...






And stuff like this is definitely something you can overcome. My own boy was very reactive, he'd have to be put into a separate room when we had visitors. Walks could be a nightmare. But I got a better understanding of training, started counter conditioning him and it took awhile but we worked through it. He's now very comfortable in public, currently being my Service Dog and going to college with me. But dogs like this usually take a long time (For him it was 3 years), devotion, and consistency from their owners. It's definitely possible :))

User avatar
Amie
Moderator
Posts: 17463
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:10 pm
Contact:

Re: TRAINERS TOLD ME TO EUTHANIZE!

Postby Amie » Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:03 pm

Please don't seek advice on the internet for something that would be serious enough for professionals to recommend euthanasia. Contact a qualified animal behaviorist: http://iaabc.org/consultants There aren't many near you, but a two hour drive that might save my dog's life would be worth it to me.

User avatar
PitbullLover*
Super Bully
Posts: 772
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2007 3:56 am

Re: TRAINERS TOLD ME TO EUTHANIZE!

Postby PitbullLover* » Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:12 am

:goodpost:

I second that, get another professional to help you, and make sure you are agreeing 100% with the decision, I own a dog that is so dog agressive it can be very difficult at times. Good luck, hope you stick around here, you can learn so much! I used an e collar, or a head halter for my girl and a clicker and training every. single. day.

User avatar
Mooresmajestic
Bully Lover 4 Life
Posts: 1456
Joined: Thu May 07, 2009 11:42 am
Location: The "D"... ish

Re: TRAINERS TOLD ME TO EUTHANIZE!

Postby Mooresmajestic » Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:39 pm

I just noticed this thread, and I will ask a good friend of mine if she knows anyone on that side of the state that would be appropriate and capable of helping you. She does quite a bit of behavioral work with "last chance" dogs and knows some of the best behaviorists in the state. If a 3 hour drive is not out of the question for you, let me know and I can forward you her contact info.


Return to “Training and Behavior”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests