Dogs killed another animal and I'm getting tired of it all.

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Brina Blue
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Dogs killed another animal and I'm getting tired of it all.

Postby Brina Blue » Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:45 am

Guys and gals,

It's been a long time since I posted, and I don't know why I'm posting this. Maybe it's to vent, maybe it's to help sort out my mixed feelings. I don't know. I got my two pit pull pups from an acquaintance back in early 2009, essentially rescuing them because the person was going to kill off whatever he wasn't able to sell. Having been around my sister and brother and law's pits for some time I was actually excited at the opportunity to get a couple of my own.

As far as training and socialization goes; I learned as much as I could as quickly as I could. Read books, researched online, took an obedience class as well with my 2 pits and my wife. I did my best to socialize them during their first year...taking them to dog parks while young, pet stores, parks, and places where they'd see civilization around them. I wanted to introduce them to many things so that they weren't fearful of anything and were confident well adjusted dogs. In the household, I made sure to have them earn what they get...if they wanted something they'd have to sit. I taught them signals and how to ring a bell if they wanted to go out. If they wanted up on furniture they had to ask. If they wanted to go outside they couldn't run out when the door opened, etc, etc. My wife never really reinforced anything I did with them though. So some of the training stuck, and some of it didn't. She decided to treat them like human kids and let them do pretty much whatever they wanted whenever they wanted. For the sake of my marriage and to stop the constant fighting I just gave up. Some training is better than no training I thought.

The girls (both my pits are girls)...were quite different in how they turned out personality wise, at least for the first couple years. One is very quick-witted, very human-centric, and had a lot of intensity and curiosity in her eyes. She learned everything before her sister did. To this day ALWAYS wants to play if she's awake. She's also very dog aggressive. Immediately wants to fight at the sight of an outsider dog. She has to date bitten a stray dogs face and wouldn't release, she bit my sisters dog, my wife's friend's dog, and so forth. We now isolate her because of this. The other dog...well...she wasn't so quick (witted). She took a year to learn not to poop in the house. Her personality was more of that of a cuddle bug...lays around, plays a little, but for the most part just hangs out. She however, loved looking and being outside more than her sibling. She also has to date killed a lot of birds, rats, a cat, amongst other small things. We used to consider her the good one. Until now. It seems they both hit that "switch"...just one sooner than the other.

For the entire lives of the girls...we've had a neighbor who had 6-7 mini schnauzers. Terrible acting little dogs that yap all day and bark at all sides of their fence, barking and scratching and biting at it. They literally conditioned my dogs to run towards that fence line upon going outside. Over the years... I had become accustomed to their dogs barking at the fence, me scolding them, and bringing my dogs inside after they got riled up. I would scold mine as well but both breeds being terriers...it continued to happened even after the reprimands because the neighbor's dogs would constantly pace and bark. My dogs didn't worry about unless those dogs were creating a ruckus.

Yesterday...one of the dogs made the mistake of putting a paw through two fence posts. My girls grabbed it and ripped it off. Their dog bled out before they could do anything about it and my neighbor came over to get the leg. He didn't press any charges or make a scene...just wanted his dog's leg. I felt really bad about it...because my dogs now only go outside for potty and that's it. Typically 5-10 min max and with me at the door or in the nearby kitchen watching through the back window. It just so happened that this time both of us let the dogs out simultaneously.

I'm honestly...just tired of it all. Tired of trying so damn hard to "socialize" a dog that has no business in society with other dogs and small children. A properly bred dog shouldn't need this much work to get them to integrate into our society well. I know that's what the breed came from...you can't undo genetic code with simply teaching them to sit and stay or telling them no when they do something wrong...especially when the dog is tunnel-visioned and completely focused once the switch has turned. I don't like my dogs anymore. I don't want them. At least that's how I feel now. But then I look at them in their eyes and while I'm disgusted with them I feel sorry for them at the same time because they don't know any better. They don't even consider it...like a sociopath they have no emotional repercussions from what happened and likely don't even think about it once it's done. I told my wife that I'm considering re-homing them to a place that can handle extremely aggressive dogs...and she defended them...saying it's not "our fault" and that the neighbors dogs shouldn't have been going at the fence again and that the are used to being with us and living a cushy life, and that putting them in some shelter risks them getting mistreated and euthanized. Funny...I used to tell her that as well. Now...not so sure.

Anyway...I'm done typing for now. If anyone has any comment...feel free to post up. I still all mixed up so maybe someone can help me work through this and maybe find a solution.

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GoingPostal
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Re: Dogs killed another animal and I'm getting tired of it a

Postby GoingPostal » Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:41 pm

Well allowing your dogs to fence fight all these years was a bad idea and you are lucky something hasn't happened before, either your dogs aren't that athletic or you have a helluva fence because most pit bull types would have been over it and busy killing the others before too long with that kind of provocation going on. You are also lucky your girls didn't redirect on each other during this fight or anytime before when they got riled up. If I were you I would decide what you want to do, realistically your dogs are not adoptable, pit bulls, older, dog and animal aggressive, history of killing things, no rescue will touch these dogs and a shelter will put them down. Sure, there's "sanctuaries for aggressive dogs", have you seen how many of those have been raided lately and how the dogs are often kept? They'd be better off dead. They need a lot of management if you keep them, I would start by putting another fence up so there is an additional barrier to the other dogs. No more going outside unless you are with them and I would look about finding a trainer who can help you and the dogs with their reactivity issues. Nothing they did or have done is out of the ordinary for dogs in general, they get in fights, they kill stuff, you can't socialize or love them into something they won't be (as you've clearly realized now).

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Megan
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Re: Dogs killed another animal and I'm getting tired of it a

Postby Megan » Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:14 am

This is just my personal opinion.

Dogs will be dogs. Not all dogs get along, and Pit Bull type dogs are of the terrier group. Terriers are meant to hunt, to kill small animals. I can't fault a terrier for killing birds/cats/rats etc. It's the name of the group they belong to.

Why have there been so many incidents? Again, I can't blame the dogs for being dogs. If a dog is known to not like other dogs--you keep them separated, or in a controlled setting. If the dogs are known to fence fight-- did you "fix" the fence so there was no interaction? Chicken wire over the boards, additional fencing on the top to prevent a dog from jumping over.

I know my dog does not like cats. She has attacked a cat. I keep the cats 100% separated. If she somehow gets to one of the cats-- I can't blame her. I know how she is, I know she doesn't like them it would be 100% my fault. Just like the first, and only, time she got one of our cats. It was our fault--she got through the door and we did not yet know she didn't like the cats and she was still in her 2 week shut down and didn't meet them yet. I blame us, not her.

Your dogs didn't have a "switch" that "flipped" this has been ongoing behavior, that established throughout the years. Nothing switched, and you knew that your dogs were dog/small animal aggressive.

I'm very sorry you had to go through this. I just can't point the blame at the dogs.

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Re: Dogs killed another animal and I'm getting tired of it a

Postby dogs4jen » Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:19 am


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Brina Blue
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Re: Dogs killed another animal and I'm getting tired of it a

Postby Brina Blue » Wed Oct 02, 2013 2:19 pm

dogs4jen wrote:http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2013/08/08/dog-fence-fixes/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Very helpful. Thank you.

I'm going to be looking into an aggressive dog training center that I found locally. It's supposed to make the dog "safe for society" again and teach me what I'm doing wrong. I don't know if it's going to work but I'd like to get to a place where my dogs can experience life outside the home and enjoy their lives and me not have to worry about them getting into (or me into) trouble.

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Re: Dogs killed another animal and I'm getting tired of it a

Postby starrlamia » Wed Oct 02, 2013 6:28 pm

Be careful with trainers because many use techniques that can be harmful, maybe post a link for feedback

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

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Brina Blue
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Re: Dogs killed another animal and I'm getting tired of it a

Postby Brina Blue » Wed Oct 02, 2013 6:36 pm

http://www.canineinstincts.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Actually...not that I'm reading more about this, they use a training collar. I don't know if I like that. But at the same time the other dog had it's leg torn off slowly, and then lost it's life. Perhaps a training collar isn't such a bad thing.

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Re: Dogs killed another animal and I'm getting tired of it a

Postby BrokenAquarian » Wed Oct 02, 2013 10:05 pm

You have to put up a second fence to prevent the dogs from coming into contact with the neighbor's dogs. Absolutely.

You cannot train this out of your dogs. You cannot make your female who doesn't like other dogs - like them. You can make it so she is calmer, if she freaks out, but you can NEVER trust her with them.

Terriers are excellent at killing animals. I couldn't let mine loose in the yard because she'd (and has)go on a murder spree. My new house was built to accommodate dogs who can't be around dogs or other animals. My yard is 5 separate sections and my house has fully enclosed kennels. The first and second floor are separated by 2 gates.(top and bottom of the stairs).

Seems overboard, but I will always have multiple dogs. My current two cannot be trusted together, but I love them greatly. They're safe, neighborhood critters are safe and I have peace of mind.

Your dogs cannot be trained or controlled if you are in the house, watching through a window.
They don't show remorse for killing, because that is not part of their nature. You are humanizing canines. Your wife isn't the only one doing it. :)


All breeds of dogs get barrier aggression when there's barking dogs on the other side of the fence. They all get aggressive and it quickly escalates to hate. Then the dogs will kill each other if they ever make contact. Happens all the time.

Animals kill animals. It doesn't make them bad. If they're pets, it's the owner who is responsible for keeping their pet safe and others safe from that pet.

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Re: Dogs killed another animal and I'm getting tired of it a

Postby jamielvsaustin » Wed Oct 02, 2013 10:50 pm

Sad. Sounds like yet another family that has failed the breed. What a disservice you've done for these dogs.

I can't quite understand your newly found distaste for your dogs-other than to think-that's how you really feel about yourself and you're projecting it on them.

Reread your post-failed at training, failed at managing your dog's DA...and AA, failed at stopping and preventing fence fighting and ultimately the death of your neighbors dog...you can't even successfully supervise them. How much effort does it really take to go outside with your dogs. To build a second fence or come up with another option?

Now you want to see a trainer? Now you want to put effort in? It's clearly a half assed last ditch effort. You know what you should do? You should take them to the vet and have them euthanized-while you're there. Don't be passing off your failures on to someone else-be it rehoming, rescues or the shelter. Take responsibility for your damn dogs! Be the owner you should have been from the get go. And then never get another living thing again.

Brina Blue wrote:a dog that has no business in society with other dogs and small children.


All of what you've described about your dogs-has nothing to do with small children. If you think because your dogs have killed small animals and are DA that means they'll also go after kids-you clearly didn't do enough research.
But, based on your history (poor dog ownership and now wanting to pawn them off onto someone else) I guess it really isn't that big of a surprise.

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Re: Dogs killed another animal and I'm getting tired of it a

Postby Celesteandthebullies » Thu Oct 03, 2013 1:20 am

I didn't like anything I saw on that trainer's site. Tackling aggression with corrections, whether from a training collar or not, is counter productive. While you may stop reactions it does not change the emotional connections and essentially creates a time-bomb. Good info from others in this thread.

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Acasper708
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Re: Dogs killed another animal and I'm getting tired of it a

Postby Acasper708 » Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:37 am

If it's a chain link fence then put those privacy inserts into the chain link. It will make it harder for the dogs to interact and won't be able to reach through.

Some dogs just don't get along!
My dog Garret (male obviously) plays fine with other dogs. But when other dogs want to play with Penny (female), he gets very defensive and it turns into a top alpha dog thing.
They have killed many squirrels, rabbits, and even birds in my yard. How is a small dog any different?
Specially a annoying little yappy ankle bitter.

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chinchi_&_chupa
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Re: Dogs killed another animal and I'm getting tired of it a

Postby chinchi_&_chupa » Fri Oct 04, 2013 11:14 am

Once again, I'm with Jamie...your dogs are NOT the problem. There are so many steps you missed that could have prevented this whole thing.

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suzanne
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Re: Dogs killed another animal and I'm getting tired of it a

Postby suzanne » Sat Oct 05, 2013 7:13 pm

One is very quick-witted, very human-centric, and had a lot of intensity and curiosity in her eyes. She learned everything before her sister did. To this day ALWAYS wants to play if she's awake. She's also very dog aggressive. Immediately wants to fight at the sight of an outsider dog. She has to date bitten a stray dogs face and wouldn't release, she bit my sisters dog, my wife's friend's dog, and so forth.


Wow, lord forbid your BULL DOG is doing what it was BRED TO DO.

This isn't a training issue, this is a management issue. If you know that your dogs enjoy eating other dogs [who can blame them], allowing them to run up to the fence should have never been an option. I feel really bad for your dogs because it seems that you cannot accept them for the breed and kind of dog that they are.

jamielvsaustin wrote:Sad. Sounds like yet another family that has failed the breed. What a disservice you've done for these dogs.

I can't quite understand your newly found distaste for your dogs-other than to think-that's how you really feel about yourself and you're projecting it on them.

Reread your post-failed at training, failed at managing your dog's DA...and AA, failed at stopping and preventing fence fighting and ultimately the death of your neighbors dog...you can't even successfully supervise them. How much effort does it really take to go outside with your dogs. To build a second fence or come up with another option?

Now you want to see a trainer? Now you want to put effort in? It's clearly a half assed last ditch effort. You know what you should do? You should take them to the vet and have them euthanized-while you're there. Don't be passing off your failures on to someone else-be it rehoming, rescues or the shelter. Take responsibility for your damn dogs! Be the owner you should have been from the get go. And then never get another living thing again.

Brina Blue wrote:a dog that has no business in society with other dogs and small children.


All of what you've described about your dogs-has nothing to do with small children. If you think because your dogs have killed small animals and are DA that means they'll also go after kids-you clearly didn't do enough research.
But, based on your history (poor dog ownership and now wanting to pawn them off onto someone else) I guess it really isn't that big of a surprise.


:goodpost:

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Re: Dogs killed another animal and I'm getting tired of it a

Postby TrainTrax » Sat Oct 05, 2013 7:17 pm

Did you do any amount of research on the breed before owning them? Dog aggression and animal aggression are well known within the pit bull community.

Again, I have to echo what others have said. You failed as an owner. That much is blatantly obvious. I'm not sure how you can't see that you are the failure.

I have a dog that is highly prone to severe anxiety and is not dog tolerant. She can and has fought other dog, including my other dog. Every fight they've had has been my fault. I turned my back and didn't see the bone on the floor. On one occasion my brother had a friend over and the friend had his dog in the spare bedroom in the garage. Well, the dog snuck in and my dog was on it before I even knew the dog was inside. Things like that. chocolate happens, I'm only human and they're dogs. But I still love my dogs unconditionally.

But, to be honest, you have absolutely no business owning a breed like this. You are careless, ignorant and won't admit your faults.

Do those dogs a favor and put them to sleep. You can't safely manage them or admit your faults. The dogs are now unadoptable because of your slack as a dog owner. And after you put them to sleep, get a goldfish. All you have to do is feed it. If you can manage that.

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Re: Dogs killed another animal and I'm getting tired of it a

Postby jamielvsaustin » Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:55 am



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