LEGO: From prepared to paranoid...

Tricks, obedience, behavior, and more.
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taurustendency
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LEGO: From prepared to paranoid...

Postby taurustendency » Wed Jan 15, 2014 5:56 pm

hello all, this is my first post aside from my introduction, so it may get lengthy. i am very happy to have gotten my first pit pup and am looking forward to learning as much as i can about being a responsible pit bull owner. my boyfriend and i have always held the philosophy that when it comes to dogs, "you get out of them what you put into the them." in life we do not see race, gender, color, creed, OR breed. but i have to say that now my internal workings are being challenged.

we've done our homework about the APBT, and knew that it will take a lot of dedication and responsibility to raise a happy, healthy, and safe pitbull. we felt confident in our decision to rescue Lego (our new 4 month old APBT/lab mix), and have been diving into every resource we can find, for the last three days since hes joined us. which may have been a mistake.

as of now, i almost wish that i didnt know anything about them, and that i was going into this blind...because now preparedness has turned to paranoia. i guess after reading so much about them, i feel a lot of pressure to do everything perfect, or else someone will pay dearly. its the same fear as raising a child i suppose, but for some reason, the pit parenting suddenly seems more intimidating.

dont get me wrong though. we are ready for this, and willing to change our lives in whatever way needed. but is it normal to have this apprehension with your first pit?

i guess the thing that concerns me the most is that ive read of so many incidents. even on here. i just have to ask, is it really that different from other dogs? i understand the tendencies that are ingrained into them, but to some extent, these behaviors are ingrained into ALL dogs.

so i look at my two other dogs. both mutt mixes of who knows what (one i know has a little husky in her)...and have to say that they are 99% perfect. they both have their little quirks that we find annoying at times, but otherwise, we couldnt ask for better. and i think about how for eight years worth of dogs coming and going in my life...that not once, not ever, has there ever been a fight. never has it ever even crossed my mind. after reading on here, it sounds like fights are rather common, even amoung your our pack mates. i wonder what i signed my poor other dogs up for.

right now i have the luxury of not having to worry about a thing when im home, or away, with or without them. and the way you guys make it sound, it seems as though from here on out, we will never be able to let our gaurd down again. always watching, always intervening. so im torn. a part of me says i need to treat and train this pitty pup as i would any other dog. and the other part of me says that i need to take a totally different approach to everything. and instead of finding a compromised middle ground, i think im trying to do both at the same time. then i tell myself to just shut up, that im over thinking it all, and to just go with what works for me and my household so far.

but dont be mistaken. im not freaked out or anything. im relaxed in everything i do. our home is always calm, peaceful and relaxing. and our dogs behave exactly as we do. i know that our energy is important, and am hoping that this pup picks up on it right away. i think he has so far, or it may just be the transition from shelter kennel to home. but he is a VERY mellow pup. like nothing ive ever seen before.

any insight would be great guys!

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jamielvsaustin
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Re: LEGO: From prepared to paranoid...

Postby jamielvsaustin » Thu Jan 16, 2014 10:56 am

taurustendency wrote:my boyfriend and i have always held the philosophy that when it comes to dogs, "you get out of them what you put into the them."


I think this is an excellent way to look at dog ownership.


taurustendency wrote:but is it normal to have this apprehension with your first pit?


I can't really gauge the level of your apprehension but it's my opinion that some apprehension/anxiety/nervousness is good. To me-that indicates that you want to be a good owner and you're afraid of messing up...which in turn means you're going to do everything you know how to do to prevent having a misstep.


taurustendency wrote: i just have to ask, is it really that different from other dogs? i understand the tendencies that are ingrained into them, but to some extent, these behaviors are ingrained into ALL dogs.

I say yes. But in saying that I think after you've responsibly owned a PB type dog-you will treat every dog after that the same. Meaning-the same type of management and prevention. While I agree that they're all dogs, they are wired a bit differently here and there. Some will fight, some will herd, some will hunt, some will swim etc etc etc. Yes all dogs can fight but do not...all dogs can herd/hunt/swim but do not. I get where you're coming from, I think you just need to take your thinking one step further-they're animals first, then dogs, then breeds (at least that's how I see it).

I don't know what to tell you in regards to possible fights and vigilance. We've had fights in our house :( And because of them we're more vigilant. We've seen the spectrum of love, like, dislike and hate dogs can have. I don't think we're bad owners for the fights we had...I do think we were ignorant. You're already starting out ahead.

Don't leave your dogs unsupervised-even if you previously did. The dynamic in your household is different now-plan accordingly. Learn what you can about appropriate behavior between/among dogs and learn all you can about body language. Any sort of issue/situation that makes you uncomfortable-nip it in the bud. Try to let your dogs associate one another with positive things. You may still end up having to crate and rotate your dogs (and it doesn't always have to be with a crate, we use rooms and baby gates). Your dog may grow up and never show an ounce of DA or AA, but wouldn't you rather be aware it could happen and have a plan versus not knowing it could...and worse, not knowing what to do if it did?

It'd kind of be similar to owning a retired Greyhound and having a bunny (or some other small animals)-you'd do what you could to prevent anything happening between them. You may have a Greyhound who doesn't care and loves all bunnies. You may have a GH that only loves your bunny but not others. And you may have a GH that can't even LOOK at a bunny.

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taurustendency
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Re: LEGO: From prepared to paranoid...

Postby taurustendency » Thu Jan 16, 2014 4:32 pm

hmmm...thanks for your encouragement, it means a lot to me. however, ive got to admit that i feel no better about it now. haha! i was hoping someone would chime in and say "oh yeah, ive never experienced any problems with my pits." but i guess thats a lot to ask for.

im beginning to think that i am going to have to totally rearrange the way i do everything. i expected change, but not like this. ive been reading on here a couple days now (wheeeww, theres a lot to read), and i cant help but to think that all of you would think im a terrible canine owner. i'll explain. first of all, ive had a number of dogs or various breeds, and have always raised all of them the exact same way. and they all turn out the same way. so...so far, what i do works. but until now i have never owned what is considered a "powerful breed." but as far as raising them go, i just know you all would scoff at my methods, and tell me why i shouldnt do what i do. and all i can say is you are welcome to meet my dogs to see for yourself. but anyways, back to explaining:

*i have always established myself as the leader, right from the get go. through training and play and affection. all of my dogs have been very submissive, and ive taught them to be that way. when i play with them, i display dominance. on all fours, playing with toys, i will put my arms on them like im stepping on them, take them down and expose their bellies, give them the same types of nips and bites their own mothers would. that has always been my approach, to treat them as if i were their mother, teaching them where their rank is. but dont get me wrong, im not rough or anything. its gentle play, but they know i mean business. if there ever has been a challenge like tug of war or anything like that...i never allow them to win. i read on here somewhere, someone said that taking them down would make them fear me and become aggressive, or think of it as punishment. i have never witnessed any of this in my dogs. but im guessing this would not be a good idea with the APBT?

*i live way out in the country on 20 acres. no fence or kennel. i have a kennel, but have never used it. the dogs stay on the property. i imagine that now that i have the pit, i will not be able to let him go free though. just for him though, but for my neighbors well being as well. so my boyfriend and i are considering our options. using the kennel, building a run, or leaving him in the house while we are away.

*also, being out in the country, i dont walk my dogs. never have. just on rare occassions. they have all the time in the world to run and play. and as far as bonding goes, we are all very well bonded because we do so much traveling with them and trips to public places. so they are great on leashes, but we dont do daily walks. however with the new pit puppy, i already knew that i would be walking with him, so the others will be a part of that too. thats one thing i dont have a problem with changing.

*i have never crate trained. ever. never found a need for it. my dogs have never destroyed anything in the home. and potty training went fine without it. the need for them being used to a crate is something that i have never foreseen. while away for the day, they are fine inside or out. no fights, destruction, anxiety, potty accidents. for extended stays, they always go with us.

*im a free feeder. ive read tons of things about not letting them self feed, but i dont agree with it. my dogs are healthy, fit, and are not food aggressive. i know how much they eat in a day, i monitor the amount that is put in the bowl daily, but it stays there all day. and they know who fills the bowl. they know its me who provides for them.

*i also dont regulate toys either. they have a toy box and are free to go and take from it whenever they please. no toy aggression. no intense excitement. no hoarding.

so i guess im conflicted. i have raised my dogs my own way for many years now, and it works. you honestly wouldnt find better, more mannered, more respectful, more well balanced dogs. so im torn between going with what has always worked for me, or going with what pit owners say is best. you said for me to treat them as animal first, dog second, and pit last, which is what i intend to do, and always have done.

i guess my reluctancy to changing everything around in my home, is that i fear it will upset the balance of what we have now. i kinda think that if i treat this dog just as i do the others, he will turn out just as they did. but if i suddenly change things, then the whole energy of the house changes and i fear that is where the tension will rear its ugly head. by always singling one out, keeping one kenneled, or crated, switching to set meal times, etc. i think that is where the hostility will come in. a part of me thinks that society treating pits differently all the time is what causes the problem, they feel that anxiety, yet the other part of me tells me that is a very naive way of thinking.

anyways, i guess i will go with the flow and be prepared for whatever arises. i guess im just venting, or thinking outloud. hope you dont mind?! haha! thanks!

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chinchi_&_chupa
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Re: LEGO: From prepared to paranoid...

Postby chinchi_&_chupa » Thu Jan 16, 2014 5:31 pm

I have 2 APBT's and 1 rescue "Pit Bull type dog". My male, Thor, is a complete ass when it comes to large dogs that aren't his girls...he loves cats and little dogs though. I have no doubt that he would fight if I gave him the chance. Then there's Chloé, my ROCKSTAR, who is 3.5 years and hasn't had a problem with any other dog ever. I absolutely LOVE watching her run around my Vet's fenced in acre with her 4 female Doberman Pinchers and her little female Pit mix! We compete in AKC Obedience, she's titled, and is our demo dog at obedience class. I even take her with me to use with crazy dogs when I train, because I know she knows what we're doing and won't react. She won't even make eye contact until they calm down. Then there's Kiera, the rescue, who is too dumb to be mean (I mean that the most loving way possible :) ) She's not stupid and learns quickly, but she'd just rather play and run...so far, she's only 1.

Point being, all dogs are individuals and are all different. Your baby is young so you have plenty of time to set him up for a happy life with all of you. You could do everything right and he could still not like your other dogs, or you could do everything wrong and end up with the best dog on the planet. Only time will tell. You said one of your dogs is a Husky mix, so you DO have experience with powerful breeds. Go with your gut. If it makes you uncomfortable, intervene, and keep learning - especially dog body language so you'll know what to look for and can intervene before there's a problem. As far as changing the harmony you have now, any change no matter how big or small is only a change for a small time before it becomes routine and the "change" is already home :)

I know all the reading can be overwhelming, but most of us here would rather be safe than sorry. Please don't leave them alone together or let them run free. They really do need you to make the right decisions for them, you can't trust them to do that and most of all THANK YOU! Thank you for learning and having an open mind to all of it. You and your dogs will be better for it! A LOT of us were there once.

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Re: LEGO: From prepared to paranoid...

Postby GoingPostal » Thu Jan 16, 2014 5:54 pm

If I were you I'd start doing some research into the whole "dominance" theory. It's a load of garbage, there's no need to alpha roll your dogs or always win at tug or always walk through doors first or any of that nonsense. Your dog isn't a wolf and they know you aren't either. Treating every dog like they are the same may have worked in the past, but it's something you may have to adjust your thinking. A hound is different than a husky or a mastiff or a pit bull. All have their traits and quirks. Terriers are known for their prey drive and dog aggression. Maybe you'll end up with a very easy, dog friendly, laid back "cold" dog. You just never know with a mix. My oldest dog is like that, although I still don't ever let her off leash to play with strange dogs or run loose and she doesn't get left unattended with the other dogs. She'll snark a bit but is not out looking for a fight.

My other two are more typical bully breed, quick to amp up and start a scrap over anything, untrustworthy with other dogs/animals, very prey driven, fence jumpers. I would never leave food or toys around my dogs together, they do not share or back down to each other and the fight would be on quickly, most other breeds will just defer to the more dominant dog and at most maybe growl about it. My dogs would forget the toy entirely and be intent on killing each other. Every scuffle we have had was over resources. We do one on one play time, outside time, walks and they are separated for eating and chews and every time we leave the house.

My advice, avoid the common problems. I would never free feed, my dogs would be massively overweight and in case of emergency you'd never know when/how much they ate last or if they ate at all. Crate training can be important, for car travel, boarding, in case of injury, overnight stays at the vet, last thing you want is a dog who freaks out in the crate because he's never been in one. All my dogs are crate trained and we transition them out as they prove they won't eat my house. You don't have to crate to separate a dog though, use a bedroom or a kennel.

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taurustendency
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Re: LEGO: From prepared to paranoid...

Postby taurustendency » Thu Jan 16, 2014 6:30 pm

Thanks, I totally appreciate everyone's advice! I wish for my pitpup to become like the ROCK STAR you have. Sadly though, where I live, we have a complete lack of opportunity for cool stuff like that. We have a couple of nearby places that offer the basic "sit and stay" type stuff that I've already taught him. I've only had him 4 days now, he's as smart as a wipe. But anything beyond that is impossible to find around here without traveling two hours. Which isn't out of the question, but age/timing is important and may be hard to arrange schedules and finances. He's already missed a big portion of his socialization age, due to sitting in various shelters since being weaned. (And the splayed feet resulting n g from that is a whole o their story).

Being out in the country, our walks don't ever encounter other dogs. We don't even have a dog park that I could slip him into while no one else is there. We have a park I will take him to, and will have to get him chilled out with the geese that live there. That should be a challenge! But so far it's just been a lot of family and friends, their kids and dogs.

I do intend on keeping him secured when we are away, from the other two. However, I'm not going to start securing them. I've lived here for 13 years, eight of which my Nadia girl hasn't left the carport. And my boyfriends dog who has been here three y ears doesn't leave Nadia.

Nadia by the way is the husky mix. But I tell you, if I didn't see her with her mom before she was weaned, I would never believe it. She's a mess of a mutt. I call her a muttsky. I knew that husky was a hard breed, but I've just never seen Nadia in that light before. She's a cross between a clown and a bump on a log.

But anyways, getting off topic here. I do take this seriously, so thank you everyone for this huge forum packed with so many experiences, and links, and ideas. It truly is a valuable resource for us beginners.

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taurustendency
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Re: LEGO: From prepared to paranoid...

Postby taurustendency » Thu Jan 16, 2014 7:17 pm

@ going postal: I guess I do the dominance thing because I want them to know that I demand their respect. And by establishing that I'm the boss, right off the bat, from there it just makes everything else easier. Like building the foundation, so to speak. I haven't done dominant play with Nadia since she was a pup, and now eight years later she still knows I'm boss. I found this approach better than walking around my home saying "no" a thousand times a day. Behavior corrections didn't include punishments, bribery, distractions, all she ever got was a simple no, and by god she listened the first time. And after time, I didn't have to correct any behavior at all. Until I got this pup four days ago, I can't tell you the last time I had to tell either dog to stop doing something.

I've done t he research on the dominant theory. There are a lot of people who hate cesar Millan for it. And from the examples that you gave about the wolves and waiting at doors, I assume you are one of them. I think that's okay. Everyone has their own way that works for them. But just for the record, I did a lot of this stuff before I even seen any of his stuff. It just felt natural to me to take the natural approach. I was actually happy when I learned of cesar because he just reinforced my belief in it. However, I'm not naive enough to follow the masses about him either. I'm sure there's not that goes on behind closed doors that I wouldn't like to hear about.

That being said, Didn't want to turn this into a cesar debate. But I thou g http it was worth mentioning that I know where you're coming from when you expressed that concern. But hey, that's why I mentioned it in my origin a l post, I was already c concerned about t his method towards the pitpup. So thank you for telling me it's not advised with him. As for my others, I regret nothing. In fact, I wish I would have done the whole waiting at the door thing with them. And am doing it with all three dogs now. As I said before, Nadia is 99percent perfect. She has noises u especially at all except for one annoyance, and that is being a bulldozer at the door. S g e has to be the first to go in. She doesn't care if you're an elderly lady, holding a baby, or an workload of groceries...she will knock you down to get in first. So you better believe it that this pup :) as already learned that one. He don't walk in or out an exterior door without being told "okay" or giving him the motion for it.

And I know that I need to treat each dog differently. That's why I'm hear, voicing my concerns. I knew raising pit bulls would be different. I'm hear to find out how different. Thanks!

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Re: LEGO: From prepared to paranoid...

Postby GoingPostal » Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:01 pm

taurustendency wrote:@ going postal: I've done t he research on the dominant theory. There are a lot of people who hate cesar Millan for it. And from the examples that you gave about the wolves and waiting at doors, I assume you are one of them. I think that's okay. Everyone has their own way that works for them. But just for the record, I did a lot of this stuff before I even seen any of his stuff. It just felt natural to me to take the natural approach.


I don't particularly like Cesar, but it's more of the general fact that dominance theory in general has been completely debunked that I caution anyone using it. Dogs aren't even truly pack animals. There's nothing wrong with being in charge, you are just from the fact you have thumbs and can control anything that involves your dogs life. Teaching wait at the door or sitting for attention has nothing to do with dominance and everything to do with training basic manners. It's more of the alpha rolling/kicking/collar jerking and general misunderstanding and ignorance of dog behavior that people dislike CM for. Bully breeds can be determined but they are generally eager to learn, especially if you have food. They are very smart dogs.

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taurustendency
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Re: LEGO: From prepared to paranoid...

Postby taurustendency » Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:23 am

I understand. I don't kick. And I don't jerk the collar, other than just tugging them back to me when they start pulling. But in all honesty, I don't really see how it's been debunked, when so many dogs respond to it so well. Not every dog I'm sure. But many, and they don't seem to be fearful, upset, or unhappy. I'm sure it doesn't work for every dog, or every owner, but you can't deny that it does work for some, without ill effects. Mine included.

So goingpostal, your technique is food motivated? I use them for learning tricks and the basic commands, but how do you work that into other day to day situations? It doesn't seem to be working with the leash. He's very food motivated, but it doesn't hold his attention on the leash. He is still young though, I wouldn't call it a problem yet.

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jamielvsaustin
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Re: LEGO: From prepared to paranoid...

Postby jamielvsaustin » Fri Jan 17, 2014 9:55 am

Some articles on dominance that you might be interested in:

http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues ... 415-1.html

This article is quoted in the one above.
http://4pawsu.com/pmdominance.htm

This article isn't about dominance, but instead Operant and Classical conditioning...which come into play (or are relevant) when you alpha roll your dog so that he knows you're the one in charge.
http://www.wagntrain.com/OC/#Classical

This one talks about dominance as it relates to resources...as GP mentioned...in that aspect you are dominant (and therefore don't have to do anything more in that aspect) because you have thumbs-you have the access to the resources.
http://drsophiayin.com/philosophy/dominance

From section G on are probably the ones that are going to be most interesting to you (all of them are good, but you know..)
http://drsophiayin.com/philosophy/dominance

http://www.apdt.com/petowners/choose/dominance.aspx

At the bottom of this page is a part about learned helplessness-I don't think (at all) that's how your dogs feel...but I do think it's important to be aware of that possibility. LH often comes from dominance styles of training.
http://fearfuldogs.wordpress.com/tag/le ... plessness/
(there's also a section on there called "Good Enough?" that you might find interesting.)


These aren't about dominance but are good Pit Bull owner articles:

http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/11/ ... re-raised/

http://shastadogs.com/posts/is-a-pit-bu ... dog-for-me


Here's some info on crating and rotating:
http://www.pbrc.net/rotate.html

This is a type of training called BAT (Behavior adjustment training) a really good resource to have when/if you run into training issues:
http://empoweredanimals.com/BAT-basics.pdf


And lastly an article on stress signals:
http://www.4pawsu.com/stresssigns.html

I know you didn't ask for all of this information-but you seem like the kind of person that doesn't mind reading. I thought if I put them all here in one spot for you you could refer back to them as you wanted/needed. There are other great members here who also have a lot of resources if you're interested.

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taurustendency
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Re: LEGO: From prepared to paranoid...

Postby taurustendency » Fri Jan 17, 2014 11:33 am

Thanks jamielvsaustin. I haven't read any of those yet, but surely will. One that caught my eye was the stress signals, because this pup does do a lot of yawning when he plays. I've seen this in my aunt's dogs, and knew what it was, but didn't have any advice for her. But yeah, he does a lot of that yawning. It seems to only happen when he doesnt get want he wants. When he tried to mouth me and I take my hand away, it leaves him yawning instead. So I'm anxious to read about that one. Most of w h at I have read about the stress yawns says what it is, but nothing about what to do about it. Thanks again.

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Re: LEGO: From prepared to paranoid...

Postby taurustendency » Fri Jan 17, 2014 12:22 pm

I haven't done any of this dominance stuff with the pup. I'm trying to learn more about pits, because I had concerns about doing it with them. However I have trained all of my other dogs this way, as well as friends dogs and had nothing but positive results from it.

I even once "fixed" a dog this way. A beagles/pointer/Jack Russel mix that no one wanted because he was absolutely uncontrollable. He was taken to a kill shelter because of his behavior. Adopted three times and brought back because of it. A friend adopted him, and he was ready to take him back, knowing that they already told him, if he comes back this time, he's being put down. So I took him in, and as of the first day, he was a completely different dog. And it wasn't an atmosphere change, because this dog and his owners spent a lot of time over here anyways. My friend wanted him back and I told him "no way! You gave up on him"

But I guess I need to set the record straight and specify what I mean when I say dominance. I use the rolls only when playing. I never punish a dog other than telling it to go lay down. I don't use special collars. I am not a mean tyranny or anything. My way is more of my own thing I've created, rather than subscribing to anyone's certain dominant theory. It begins with establishing I'm boss, and from that point on its reward and love bbased.

I just read the first article and I have to say that I don't agree with any of it...in regards to my two older dogs. Everything they said, my dogs have proven wrong. I also really didn't see myself in that context. When it mentioned dogs jumping up on people or stealing food as not being a dominant behavior, I was thinking "I never felt that way anyway...who would?" I do in fact do the rolls, but maybe in all the other aspects I don't do dominance. Perhaps I describe my method as dominant for a lack of a better word...because I felt that none of that applied to me or what I do. So idea, maybe I've just combined several methods to create my own. All I know is that it has worked for me so far. But I'm being more careful with Lego.

But concerning the debate about dogs not being pack animals, I disagree. And nature shows us that over and over. Dogs are already social creatures. And you see dogs in the wild gravitate towards each other by their own choice. And I'm not talking about wolves or other wildlife...I mean domesticated dogs with no real family to provide for them. They seek that out naturally

Also, I find it very easy to spot the communications between my dogs. I also know that they understand each other. And furthermore I know that they understand me when I do it. Otherwise, I wouldn't have the results that I do. I can see it on their faces when the moment clicks, and I never have to remind them. They get it. Just as easily as they get learning to sit for a treat.

Anyways, I'm biased about my way when it comes to other dogs. However, I'm being much more opened when it comes to the pitpup. So I appreciate all of this stuff! The more the merrier!

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taurustendency
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Re: LEGO: From prepared to paranoid...

Postby taurustendency » Fri Jan 17, 2014 12:41 pm

The second article just further bothered me. Either I'm not a dominant type owner, or these guys are citing bad examples. I wouldn't consider that peeing on the rug would be corrected with the dog knowing his rank. Just as I said in the previous post, stealing food and jumping on people. That's all training. There's a different between not knowing your place and simply being untrained. And anyone who doesn't know the difference does in fact need to read up on this stuff. I wouldn't make those connections at all. All I'm saying is that if the dog knows you're the boss, then training and behavior corrections are a cinch, because they know to listen the first time.

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Re: LEGO: From prepared to paranoid...

Postby taurustendency » Fri Jan 17, 2014 4:38 pm

The fourth article has a lot of criticism towards cesar. But I find it rather odd how his use of collar snaps and finger jabs is all they see. He preaches exactly the same thing his critics are. To learn the body language, spot the issue before it starts, correct or redirect it immediately, and to only praise/reward once the animal has calmed. To keep excitement levels low and to not reward bad behavior. And in the cases of fearful dogs, he never dominants them, he does confidence boosting techniques and relaxation. He treats every dog as an individual. And none of his dogs look abused or unhappy. Everyone agrees with the fundamentals, but hates his execution...even though they have equally controversial methods. It's funny how he catches so much flack over techniques and tools that everybody else's uses too. Some people shock, some choke, some spank, some jab, some feed, some roll, and some do nothing. If all other trainers out there each had a tv show, they would also have fans as well as critics.

In any case, I'm beginning to learn through all this, is that no one individual has the answer or perfect method. It's all about what you are morally comfortable with doing...And you may get lucky, you may not.

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Re: LEGO: From prepared to paranoid...

Postby jamielvsaustin » Fri Jan 17, 2014 5:01 pm

I will agree that there are some things that CM says that everyone says...and that his execution is poor. However this:
taurustendency wrote: And none of his dogs look abused or unhappy.

I strongly disagree with. I don't have access to a lot of them right now-but there are PLENTY of videos of him and an extremely uncomfortable dog.

Here is a video of him choking out a dog.


And here is one of him getting bitten:


Neither of these dogs look happy to me and those are only the cuts that make the show-imagine the ones that don't.


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