LEGO: From prepared to paranoid...

Tricks, obedience, behavior, and more.
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taurustendency
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Re: LEGO: From prepared to paranoid...

Postby taurustendency » Fri Jan 17, 2014 5:09 pm

Regarding the sixth link with all the videos about learned helplessness, I do think the ends justify the means...as long as there was no abuse involved. Because what we see in video is not the end. It's just the first step. And we all know that with change comes fear, confusion and stress. I was terrified the first time I rode a bike, or a roller coaster. But the first video where we see a poor little scared pup is just his first bike ride. Dogs don't hold grudges, nudge them to take those first few steps, and fast forward a few walks later and you won't see those same signs of fear or stress. They learn, adjust, and get used to things just as we do. You can't discredit every success story based on the first time in the pool.

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taurustendency
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Re: LEGO: From prepared to paranoid...

Postby taurustendency » Fri Jan 17, 2014 5:20 pm

I meant that none of CM's dogs look unhappy. Obviously his clients dogs will because of what I said above, not to mention he is a stranger to them. And to be realistic, every dog has a brief moment of looking a little pathetic after the moment they are corrected. But once they get it, it goes away, and so does the need for corrections at all.

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taurustendency
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Re: LEGO: From prepared to paranoid...

Postby taurustendency » Fri Jan 17, 2014 5:33 pm

I don't know. Im going to do things differently with Lego, because of the breed, but at no point will I ever regret or see fault in how I've always trained in the past. If my dogs had any bad behavior what-so-ever, then I would be open minded to examine where I went wrong. But they are great, and I hardly had to do a thing. And trust me, I'm not too relaxed. I don't let them run wild all over the place and let them do whatever they want and say "oh how cute" to everything. They just get me.

Like I said before, maybe I'm not really dominant with them. I feel like what I do is being misunderstood due to not really knowing how to explain it. :o

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Re: LEGO: From prepared to paranoid...

Postby Brianna&Bubba. » Fri Jan 17, 2014 11:59 pm

So I am a newish pitbull owner also. I would suggest on CM subject, maybe not bring it up lol. It will always be a fight with that subject. I also cringe at CM, but its useless to want to try to change someones opinion.

But on the actual subject of your post, I was in your situation, except I was not paranoid. I actually didn't do a lot of research on the "negative" (lack of better word) side of pitbulls. Like the prey drive and dog aggression, I was very aware of the nasty biased media. But I wasn't prepared for the prey drive and dog aggression. I got my first pitbull a little over 2 years ago. I was just like you, thought I would train him and treat him just as I would with all my other dogs (softer breeds of course) and thought it would be just fine. Just as you said, I would free feed, unsupervised play, no crating and etc.

But they are a very special breed, they could possibly require more attention and precautionary measures than your usual dog I guess. I adopted my first pitbull Buddy a little over 2 years ago, and it was obvious after some time as he matured, that my usual training and treatment didnt work for him. I noticed he became uncomfortable and snarled when eating around other dogs so free feeding was stopped. Play could get excessive and scuffles happened when I was around so I realized that unsupervised play and socializing wouldn't be good for him. He became dog aggressive where he would not accept or have anything to do with a dog unless it was a part of his immediate friends he associated with since being a pup. He would tear stuff up and seemed to have anxiety when left alone at home, so I tried to kennel train him. Buddy was taken away from me by a horrible ex boyfriend a year ago.I learned as I went, and I feel kinda bad for Buddy because these dogs just want structure. So if you are very comfortable with the way you have done things, I say go for it but stay aware and change things as accordingly. I can't say that the "learn as you go" is the wrong way, Buddy was a good dog and I adapted with him as I became aware of things. But I feel like I could have saved him a lot stress if I took the advice from day one.

I'm not sure what to say about play though, I've always "rough housed" with my dogs, we play and I get on top of them and they get on top of me. tug of war and etc. I never really worried about a dominance thing though.

Now with my two girls, both pit mixes, I have TWO crazy girls. This time though, I initiated the "new" training and treatment right away and I'm definitely happy with the results. Bella since she was 8 weeks, and Bailey since being like 5 or 6 months. It has just become the normal and the girls definitely seem happy. I feel more secured also. Even though they don't show food aggression with each other, I know they are safe. And its a bonus to knowing when they ate, how much they ate, and etc. Crate training is a beautiful thing, oh my goodness, I can't believe I didn't do it before! My house stays in one piece and I don't have to worry about a fight happening. Then I take the girls to my school (vet tech program) and they stay in the kennel like angels. One thing I have not changed is regulating toys, because they really only play with toys when we're around, so that's always supervised. They are put away in a bin when cleaned up and put up on a shelf. They seem to feel structured and happy and I feel everyone is safe and I feel secured.

I am also in the country. I don't walk the girls, they work each other out just running zoomies and playing on the property. They eat like horses and they get so much exercise but they stay very fit and stimulated. Their leash skills were obtained with them going to school with me frequently and some leash training. Containing wise, runs are awesome, but I went a VERY controversial way and did the invisible fencing. Training wasn't working, it became a life and death situation because peoples propertys and livestock were within range they could run to, and I was not taking the chance that they would get shot by a farmer who has the right to shoot my dogs who may threaten his livestock. Or some guy that gets scared by a pitbull and shoots and asks questions later.. I tried tie outs, but with play they would get tangled and that could possibly become dangerous. Being leashed and or separately tied out would cause anxiety and frustration cause all they want (and deserve) is to play with each other. They are only outside freely when someone is outside with them also. I recommend trying to do anything you can before doing the invisible fence, I believe its a last resort. If you can do a run, I think that would be the best possible way.

So there is my opinion, the "old" way of training and treatment didn't work with Buddy. And my old methods might have worked for Bella and Bailey, but I can't complain about anything. It has become our normal and a routine that I'm very happy with! I recommend trying new methods with your little guy, I feel very secure and my girls are happy and safe!

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taurustendency
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Re: LEGO: From prepared to paranoid...

Postby taurustendency » Sat Jan 18, 2014 11:57 am

Thanks Brianna&bubba. Your personal experience is very helpful. So far, being such a young pup, I have not noticed a single difference in him from any of the other dogs I've dealt with. Around what age do these traits generally start to surface? (I'm sure it's different for everyone though).

At this point, I'm obviously not free feeding because he's on the puppy food...And my older ones don't need to eat it. But we are constantly messing his bowl and hes fine so far. He doesn't mind eating with the others around either as of yet. When training tricks, the kitties like to get in on the treats, and he respects their space as well...even with the canned cat food.

Up until now, we would foster, dog sit for friends, and have family with their dogs come visit for extended stays, as well as many of our own pups come and go. And one thing I've noticed is my other dog Nadia does most of the work and training for me. She's very intuitive as to age and appropriateness and always tells them how to behave. For years I have sat back and watched her play sessions with the puppies and learned that she knows what she's doing. And she does a good job. Even when things got loud and crazy, I would just give a loud "oy" and she would calm the play right away. But I'm guessing that is no longer a good idea with the pitpup? That I shouldn't allow them to get worked up together even now?

On the weekends we sometimes do a special thing that we call mattress weekends. We drag out our mattress to the living room, cozy up to the wood stove, and veg out for the whole weekend in front of the tv. Our families little cuddle-puddle time. Last night we had me, my boyfriend, all three dogs and one cat all huddled on the mattress with us, all night. The puppy adores these guys so far. So I'm just curious when all the bad stuff is supposed to kick in. I don't want to curse myself by always waiting for it...because it may never happen. And yet I want to be cautious.

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taurustendency
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Re: LEGO: From prepared to paranoid...

Postby taurustendency » Sat Jan 18, 2014 11:57 am

Thanks Brianna&bubba. Your personal experience is very helpful. So far, being such a young pup, I have not noticed a single difference in him from any of the other dogs I've dealt with. Around what age do these traits generally start to surface? (I'm sure it's different for everyone though).

At this point, I'm obviously not free feeding because he's on the puppy food...And my older ones don't need to eat it. But we are constantly messing his bowl and hes fine so far. He doesn't mind eating with the others around either as of yet. When training tricks, the kitties like to get in on the treats, and he respects their space as well...even with the canned cat food.

Up until now, we would foster, dog sit for friends, and have family with their dogs come visit for extended stays, as well as many of our own pups come and go. And one thing I've noticed is my other dog Nadia does most of the work and training for me. She's very intuitive as to age and appropriateness and always tells them how to behave. For years I have sat back and watched her play sessions with the puppies and learned that she knows what she's doing. And she does a good job. Even when things got loud and crazy, I would just give a loud "oy" and she would calm the play right away. But I'm guessing that is no longer a good idea with the pitpup? That I shouldn't allow them to get worked up together even now?

On the weekends we sometimes do a special thing that we call mattress weekends. We drag out our mattress to the living room, cozy up to the wood stove, and veg out for the whole weekend in front of the tv. Our families little cuddle-puddle time. Last night we had me, my boyfriend, all three dogs and one cat all huddled on the mattress with us, all night. The puppy adores these guys so far. So I'm just curious when all the bad stuff is supposed to kick in. I don't want to curse myself by always waiting for it...because it may never happen. And yet I want to be cautious.

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taurustendency
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Re: LEGO: From prepared to paranoid...

Postby taurustendency » Sat Jan 18, 2014 12:04 pm

I don't know why that double posted. I can't figure out how to delete it. Moderators, feel free to delete it.

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taurustendency
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Re: LEGO: From prepared to paranoid...

Postby taurustendency » Sat Jan 18, 2014 12:18 pm

Image

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Re: LEGO: From prepared to paranoid...

Postby Brianna&Bubba. » Sat Jan 18, 2014 3:27 pm

At his age, it's pretty normal but still very good that you don't see any red flags. Things sound good so far with him, respecting the kitties space and not feeling uncomfortable with other dogs and people around his food. It could possibly change one day, and you'll know when and what to do. Buddy and my two girls started showing what they are comfortable with, and what they are uncomfortable with, after turning over a year old.

And I actually just posted a post asking people about a pecking order with my house. Bella and Bailey have began their scuffles that a quick yell of "hey" or calling their names stops it. This isn't a red flag, they are at a challenging behavior spot in their lives and they are both at this stage at the same time.. lol They are both a little over a year. I was advised that in the event of a fight, it can vary from being a small scuffle to a fight) to be separated for a while to let the hormones calm down. I let them play like crazy, I guess you could say they get worked up, but its easy to see the difference from play and someone or both getting upset or excessive. When that happens, stopping it and then maybe separate them or distract them with something else for a while would be good. They have a lot of energy and need to get it out lol An more mature dog to help socialize a pup is a good start.

Bailey is becoming the one that wants to be in control and when they had their first two scuffles, they were separated for a couple days. I haven't had a scuffle since but I see Bailey start to get excessive during play, I call them and then we start doing something else, like I will do a couple commands for sit, lay, stay, whatever. Or I grab a ball for each and make them run after them in different directions. They become focused on me instead of each other and I'm not a behaviorist or anything so i have no clue if this actually helps. But I like doing it.

And how sweet! What a sweet picture. :) Bella absolutely loves it when we get a fire going in the fireplace in the living room. Thats where you will find her till it goes out lol.

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Re: LEGO: From prepared to paranoid...

Postby Misskiwi67 » Sat Jan 18, 2014 11:00 pm

So this might be late to the thread, I skipped the last few replies, but yes, it's absolutely normal to be a bit paranoid.

I'm getting a hunting dog puppy in 6 days. The puppy will be trained by me, but mostly hunt with my boyfriend and his buddies - no pressure! I think I own every training manual for hunting dogs, and I don't even have the dog yet.

The key, and I will have to remind myself of this frequently in the next few weeks, is not to expect too much, too fast from a pup. Enjoy your new dog, work on building a strong and positive relationship, and the rest will follow.

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taurustendency
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Re: LEGO: From prepared to paranoid...

Postby taurustendency » Sun Jan 19, 2014 6:32 am

Thanks misskiwi. What kind of hunting dog are you getting? I know someone with 2 German short hair pointers...they are amazing! Ridiculously smart!

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Re: LEGO: From prepared to paranoid...

Postby Misskiwi67 » Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:19 am

taurustendency wrote:Thanks misskiwi. What kind of hunting dog are you getting? I know someone with 2 German short hair pointers...they are amazing! Ridiculously smart!


I'm getting a Deutch Drahthaar - its a German registered German Wirehaired Pointer

Oh, and as for your "old-school" training techniques, I have to agree with everyone else. Caesar Milan is a quack.

Here's a couple other well respected trainers who have changed their ways. Try something new, you will enjoy your training and your dog even more than you ever have.

Michael Ellis - http://leerburg.com

Sophia Yin - http://drsophiayin.com/resources

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Re: LEGO: From prepared to paranoid...

Postby BrokenAquarian » Sun Jan 19, 2014 5:36 pm

Electronic fencing is not advisable for determined dogs or breeds like pit bulls. They were built to take pain and keep going. If your dog is amped up about something on the other side of the fence line, they very well may take the shock and keep going.

Building a secure fence is the last ditch effort, not the electric fence. There's also the chance that they make it out, but can't come back in because they get shocked every time they try.

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Re: LEGO: From prepared to paranoid...

Postby Brianna&Bubba. » Sun Jan 19, 2014 8:38 pm

BrokenAquarian wrote:Electronic fencing is not advisable for determined dogs or breeds like pit bulls. They were built to take pain and keep going. If your dog is amped up about something on the other side of the fence line, they very well may take the shock and keep going.

Building a secure fence is the last ditch effort, not the electric fence. There's also the chance that they make it out, but can't come back in because they get shocked every time they try.



Exactly why my dogs aren't outside when someone is not outside with them if they ever chose to go pass the line. They haven't yet and still choose to stay within the perimeter no problem, but someone is still always outside with them just in case. The fence to go around our whole property is in process as we speak, but the ground is hardpan and has broken our tractor and auger multiple times trying to get this fence up. It is still in process and trying to get it up as fast as we can, but its only been able to get a little bit done at a time. And for 5 acres plus some fencing in between its taking a while.

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taurustendency
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Re: LEGO: From prepared to paranoid...

Postby taurustendency » Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:56 pm

Just thought I would post an update on Lego's progress. He is such a good boy!!! I've never had such an easy puppy!

From the very first night, he sleeps all through the night. No crying, no playing, no getting up to potty, nothing. Sometimes we invite him on the bed, but most nights he happy to lay on his bed on the floor.

If we are up and moving around, hes up and moving around. If we are being lazy, he is being lazy. When we go from room to room cleaning, he follows and calmly watches our every move. When we eat, he now automatically goes to bed on his own.

He waits at an open door for us to say okay, when coming in or going out. He waits for the okay before getting on furniture.

He bathes calmly, and will even join me in the shower. He likes being brushed. He sits calmly for an ear cleaning. Sits calmly for food.

His collar has gone from 13inches to almost 17 and weighs 35lbs.

He loves rides in the car and truck. Now that he has grown some, he can now willingly jump in and out on his own. In the truck, he sits and watches out the window. In the car, he lays down and sleeps.

He sits, shakes, gives high fives, lays down, shows me the belly, stands up, stays, follows, drops it, leaves it, gives kisses, makes eye contact, out of the ways, and goes to bed...all on command.

He has never gone after cords, shoes, clothes, furniture, or anything he's not supposed to. If he comes close to it, he stops at a simple "ehh" or "oy."

No aggression towards anything yet. Is good with the cats and our 5year old son. He obeys him as well. They do tricks for treats. Recently our son has gotten Lego to love his play tunnel. So we are gonna start building some agility stuff for them to work on.

And he rings a bell when he needs to potty.

He's interacted with all sorts of places, and people and objects. He has finally gotten used to the guitar and remote control car. At first he was scared.

So far, he's been amazing. And those are the good points. I will discuss my concerns here shortly.


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