Looking for a Good behaviorist, Phoenix AZ

Tricks, obedience, behavior, and more.
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Salival
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Looking for a Good behaviorist, Phoenix AZ

Postby Salival » Fri Dec 02, 2005 6:35 pm

I need to send someone to a good behaviorist in AZ after the dog bit someone. This is not a PB, but I know there is no way they will listen to the "PTS" line either without a recommendation first.

If anyone knows of a good one, not a PHDer. I would appreciate any suggestions.

Thanks :)

Igraine

Postby Igraine » Fri Dec 02, 2005 11:34 pm

Hi Salival ~ not from Phoenix. Still looking. BTW, what's wrong with a behaviorist who has a Ph D in Animal Behavior?

Igraine

Postby Igraine » Fri Dec 02, 2005 11:40 pm

You might try this place: http://www.petbehaviorsolutions.com/ It's right there in Phoenix.

or this guy: http://www.clickandtreat.com/biopage/biopage.htm

or here: http://www.dogtrainerphoenix.com/index.htm

Google rocks. . . :thumbsup:

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Swan
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Postby Swan » Fri Dec 02, 2005 11:55 pm

Thanks Igraine for supporting those links.

We do seem to be Pit Bull friendly out here and I wish you luck, let us know how it goes!

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Salival
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Postby Salival » Sat Dec 03, 2005 6:19 pm

Igraine wrote:Hi Salival ~ not from Phoenix. Still looking. BTW, what's wrong with a behaviorist who has a Ph D in Animal Behavior?


I don't like the PHDers mentality or education. They seem to have read texts, or papers but don't have any true experience whatsoever.

Not only that but they are always too quick to hand out pills and to call for obedience training.

But I am not truly speaking of someone with an actual PHD in dog behavior, I don't even know if that is possible honestly. But I am talking more of those paper hanging "schools" that you go to for a whopping six weeks and go through some kind of a graduation process and then are deemed a professional. I just call them PHDers because that is the only thing they ever reference, "But I have a diploma" lol

I have done google but I was looking more for anyone who has personally had experience with the behaviorist that they were recommending. Thank you though! If I don't get any with personal experience then I will pass those links on.

ReinasGuardians

Postby ReinasGuardians » Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:01 pm

Salival wrote:
I don't like the PHDers mentality or education. They seem to have read texts, or papers but don't have any true experience whatsoever.


Lots of 'trainers' like that, and yes, many schools that do not offer anywhere near enough hands-on training experience. there are others that do though.
Salival wrote:
Not only that but they are always too quick to hand out pills and to call for obedience training.


I've never heard of such a thing as a behaviorist being able to hand out pills..pretty sure you'd need a vet for that heh.. As for obedience training, it is the foundation for EVERYTHING. If a client isn't willing to put obedience training into their dog than I personally turn them down for my services.
Salival wrote:But I am not truly speaking of someone with an actual PHD in dog behavior, I don't even know if that is possible honestly. But I am talking more of those paper hanging "schools" that you go to for a whopping six weeks and go through some kind of a graduation process and then are deemed a professional. I just call them PHDers because that is the only thing they ever reference, "But I have a diploma" lol


So, you'd rather have somebody that calls themself a behaviorist with nothing to back that up? I am a certified dog trainer and behaviorist, so honestly, the tone of your message irks me a bit. In our profession, anybody can hang a sign up one day saying "dog trainer" or anything else they want, that doesn't make it so. And having a certificate doesn't make you any good either neccesarily. But there are some very good training schools out there, which put out some very high-quality behaviorists. Triple Crown being one of those, and the one I personally attended. Before you lump all certified behaviorists into the same group, and instead say you want somebody that doesn't even have that going for them, do a little more research on what you're talking about.

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Salival
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Postby Salival » Tue Dec 06, 2005 10:45 am

ReinasGuardians wrote:I've never heard of such a thing as a behaviorist being able to hand out pills..pretty sure you'd need a vet for that heh.. As for obedience training, it is the foundation for EVERYTHING. If a client isn't willing to put obedience training into their dog than I personally turn them down for my services.


So, you'd rather have somebody that calls themself a behaviorist with nothing to back that up? I am a certified dog trainer and behaviorist, so honestly, the tone of your message irks me a bit. Before you lump all certified behaviorists into the same group, and instead say you want somebody that doesn't even have that going for them, do a little more research on what you're talking about.


Don't put words into my mouth. I never said I didn't want a behaviorist without experience or knowledge- that is what I aksed for. I said I did not want a PHDers mentality. I was looking for personal experience from someone on a beahviorist that they have used. So rather than getting insulted by something that I did not say to begin with, and taking my post completely out of context, you could have offered "why" you think you are different than the others, or even a referal to someone who you think is legit.

Yes behaviorist do hand out pills - not in form - but in perscriptions. Yes every paper hanging behaviorists, most in a vet's office, that I have dealt with first suggest pills, and then obedience.

Obedience is great if your dog is needing it, but for a behavioral problem such as biting someone out of fear- obedience is NOT the answer. There, as I am sure you know, is a huge difference between obedience and behavioral training. Behavioral modification in my opinion is the foundation to starting any training on a dog. Obedience comes after a dog is mentally ready for it as it is draining and very demanding.

So no, I don't believe that I really need to reseach behaviorists all that much. I was not saying they are all cookie cutter images/mentallity of one another, I was not saying that all schools are the same, I was simply asking for a referal to one by someone who has personal experience with said behaviorist.

ReinasGuardians

Postby ReinasGuardians » Tue Dec 06, 2005 4:17 pm

Salival wrote:Don't put words into my mouth. I never said I didn't want a behaviorist without experience or knowledge- that is what I aksed for. I said I did not want a PHDers mentality. I was looking for personal experience from someone on a beahviorist that they have used. So rather than getting insulted by something that I did not say to begin with, and taking my post completely out of context, you could have offered "why" you think you are different than the others, or even a referal to someone who you think is legit.


If I mistook your context, I appologize. But I didn't try to put any words in your mouth, I read exactly what you wrote and that is exactly how I took it.
Salival wrote:Yes behaviorist do hand out pills - not in form - but in perscriptions. Yes every paper hanging behaviorists, most in a vet's office, that I have dealt with first suggest pills, and then obedience.


Again, behaviorists do not hand out pills or prescriptions. In this country, you need to be a doctor to do that. If you're talking about a Vet that also claims to be a behaviorist, then OK they could do that...However, the very meaning of being a behaviorist would suggest they wouldn't, as a behaviorists job is to find out *why* a dog is doing what it's doing and to move on from there, medication would not help in that goal and I don't personally know any real behaviorist that medicate first and ask questions later.
Salival wrote:Obedience is great if your dog is needing it, but for a behavioral problem such as biting someone out of fear- obedience is NOT the answer. There, as I am sure you know, is a huge difference between obedience and behavioral training. Behavioral modification in my opinion is the foundation to starting any training on a dog. Obedience comes after a dog is mentally ready for it as it is draining and very demanding.


If your dog is needing it? Every dog needs obedience training, every dog DESERVES an owner that is willing to put that into it. If the dog is biting out of uncertainty, obedience training will teach the dog a way to communicate with the handler which will build confidence. Obedience is the foundation for anything and everything else. Behavior modification is also training, unless you'd rather simply manage the problem than attempt to fix it. To say behavioral modification needs to be done before obedience training just doesn't make any sense.

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Salival
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Postby Salival » Tue Dec 06, 2005 6:28 pm

ReinasGuardians wrote:To say behavioral modification needs to be done before obedience training just doesn't make any sense.


And why would you say that?

The dog has a very long history of fear based aggression. A bleeding heart rescue refused to put it down because "obedience" would fix the dog, and then they adopted it out. This dog is politically correct, and when pushed by an outsider reacts in fear and with no tolerance, no matter the reaction/behavior of the owner.

I don't believe in obedience before behavioral modification. I have done it and have NEVER seen the right results. I believe and practice behavioral modification, dog-owner bonding, understanding dog language & behavior to the owner, and then once that foundation is set and understood, moving on to obedience. Why? Because at this point the dog/owner relationship is strong, there is an understanding, there is fairness on the owners part, and the dog is much more willing to please the owner once the dog's profile is known and any behavioral issues are passed or taught how to be tolerated/controlled.

This is not an I am right or you are right senario, it is just what I was asking for. I have dealt with the behaviorists in my area with several dogs and several different families, and everytime each dog was given medication first. That is just my experience.

This dog, as I refered to as needing or not needing, has already gone through obedience training. So no, in this case this dog does not need obedience (it needs a needle, but that is what I am trying to do in the first place).

I am kind of confused though. And I hate to continue this derail - even to my own thread - , but you owning and breeding working line rotts, would you ask someone to make an aggressive rott to "down" if it has a history of biting the handler? Would you not work more on the behavioral issues rather than pushing obedience on a dog that is not ready for it or can not handle it? I know that is the last thing I do when I get a human/handler aggressive mastiff in my posession. Matter of fact that is the furthest from my mind is trying to get that kind of dog to be obedient. I would much rather know why the dog is behaving the way it is and work on the behavioral side of things rather than the pressure of obedience on an already unstable dog.

ReinasGuardians

Postby ReinasGuardians » Wed Dec 07, 2005 5:52 pm

Greetings, I'm afraid I haven't really been doing a wonderful job of making myself clear..I do that when posting, as I get caught up on tangents and sometimes forget where I was going with what I was saying. And please, I am not trying to make myself out to be better than you..I often come across that way, as it's my personality and how I speak, but I'm definately not trying to insult you. I prefer to do behavior management and obedience training hand-in-hand, in all honesty. I don't believe you need to do one before the other to be effective. But, here's the bigger issue I've overlooked.. I have not seen this dog personally, have you? If you have then ok, but if not there's no way you can know for sure what's causing the aggression. I personally will not give any advice to people with aggression issues if I am not able to go and see the dog in person, as there are entirely too many possible causes for the aggression and owners tend to be very selective with what they tell you I've never once gotten the full story from an owner via phone or e-mail. So yes, it could be fear aggression, it could also be something else entirely or it could be fear aggression along with something else, a combination of things, I don't know. Every dog is different as I am sure you know, and every dog needs a program specifically tailored to it's individual needs along with what the owner is honestly capable of putting into the dog, so there is no way for me to know what *this* particular dog needs to have done with it and if you haven't seen it then neither do you in all honesty. This is way she needs a behaviorist near her, and hopefully a very good one. If I knew of any personally in Arizona I would tell you for sure, but there are some good behaviorists that belong to the IACP (international association of canine professionals I am also a member) and if you go to their website at www.dogpro.org you can find a trainer there by state, but in the end you or the owner still needs to interview that behaviorist to see if they are any good. I feel we've gotten off on the wrong foot here, when really we don't disagree oh-so-much. Truce? :)


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