I saw a pit bull being

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WakeMeUp

I saw a pit bull being

Postby WakeMeUp » Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:43 pm

pinned down on its back on the grass today while I was on a walk! The puppy had to be 7 or 8 months old. Still small. It was a kid who was doing this, maybe 16 or older is my guess. It looked like the dog did something wrong, and the kid had the pup in a submissive position laying down. His hands where on the dog's chest and neck area.
I slowed down but I kept walking by because he stopped and turned to look at me and my dog. His dog started barking at mine. I wanted to just say "hey did you find that dog? thats my dog" or something so I could take the puppy!
Oh it made me so mad to actually see it with my own two eyes!

:frown:

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Siberian
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Postby Siberian » Wed Jul 25, 2007 8:29 pm

was he hurting a dog, or was the dog just on its back? Like an alpha roll?

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BrokenAquarian
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Postby BrokenAquarian » Wed Jul 25, 2007 8:51 pm

Unless you saw what happened before the guy had the dog on it's back, you can't really judge him - or take his dog.

If the dog wasn't in pain then it's "Ok"

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hwillm1977
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Postby hwillm1977 » Wed Jul 25, 2007 9:17 pm

My boyfriend did this to Marley when he was younger... he bit me at about 6 months old (with adult teeth enough to draw a little blood) and Shawn pinned him to the ground on his side a) because he was REALLY mad at the puppy b) because he had injured me and needed to know that's not okay.

He held him there until Marley relaxed, let him go and he was fine... Marley and I enrolled in obedience classes, and I took over all care and things have been great since then... now they listen to me more than the BF...

Just using this as an example, but there may be instances where this could be useful and better than hitting the dog, and although I don't agree with it, isn't really hurting the dog... if we don't see why they've got the puppy on it's side/back, there's really no way to tell if it's abuse... perhaps they were wrestling and he was holding the puppy down until you went by so it wouldn't chase your dog?

WakeMeUp

Postby WakeMeUp » Wed Jul 25, 2007 10:28 pm

I cant really say what the kid was doing. Im guessing that he was "dominating" the dog, or simply just playing ruff..
I know what you mean, cause we did the same thing with Callisto when she was younger. If he was domintating or playing with the dog Im fine, but I can say that if I saw something that he wasnt supost to be doing I would have stepped in and pointed it out to him.
I'll keep walking by that house for a while just to see if anything is fishy. I guess thats the only thing I can do.
Thanks guys, I just needed to vent it out.

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artemiss
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Postby artemiss » Thu Jul 26, 2007 6:56 am

Man, you would have probably reported the boy and I to the aspca had you seen us with Kira the first 2 months.
We got Kira at a little less than 6 weeks old, so we knew that there would be socialization issues, as she didn't have momma and littermates to show her the ropes.
We had a couple of months of serious ATTITUDE.
We're talking snapping, snarling, thrashing "I do what I want" puppy-terror, usually when being asked to come in, or stop playing. Each time she would lose control, we would calmly pick her up, roll her over and tell her to "settle". She would yell, and scream and thrash, but eventually she would relax.
Man did we get some dirty looks!
But she's 6 mos old now, and one of the better-behaved puppies I have seen in her age group.

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jessandace
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Postby jessandace » Thu Jul 26, 2007 8:23 am

we put ace and cocoa in a submissive lay down whenever necessary.
there isn't anything cruel or unusual about this.

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Postby Libby » Thu Jul 26, 2007 9:12 am

I feel lucky that I've never had to 'alpha roll' any of my dogs. I've seen it done to dogs that are said to need it, and they just flip out. Thrashing, snarling, drooling, foaming at the mouth, screaming...sounds horrible.

Is there a right or wrong to this? I've heard that alpha rolling can actually cause more harm than good. I've also heard that it is beneficial. I wont take a stand, since I've never had to do it, but I am curious as to people's opinions.



Ket

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jessandace
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Postby jessandace » Thu Jul 26, 2007 9:55 am

the last time we did it was when ace and cocoa's 'playing' escalated into 'fighting'. we separated them and made them submissing to settle down. ace went down really easily (submits) without much struggle.. and gently holding him there helped him settle down. cocoa was a little harder to get to submit... she was so feisty... but she also calmed down.

as long as it isn't violent or abused i dont think putting a dog in a submissive laydown is a bad thing

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Postby Strmbreez » Thu Jul 26, 2007 11:16 am

I also got Katana when she was just under 6 weeks old. At around 8 weeks, she bit me in my fact, hard. Right above my eye actually. I almost had to have stitches. My bf was there, and immediately put her on the ground, on hand on her neck, one on her chest. I've watched Katana play with my older female Lab, Missy, and when Katana bites too hard or starts trying to be dominate, Missy puts her on the ground the same way (mouth around the neck, paw on the chest. Katana just lays there and doesn't even squirm anymore when it happens. She knows that means she's crossed the line.

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Postby RodentRanger » Thu Jul 26, 2007 11:21 am

While I've done the alpha roll (farkin' dog bit my butt!), I also feel that it is ineffective on a lot of dogs. They know YOU aren't a dog, so why would you "speak" dog? I think there's much better ways to establish leadership with your dog. NILIF anyone?

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Postby Ilovethepits » Thu Jul 26, 2007 12:55 pm

I've read about some very bad things happening to people who "alpha" roll their dog. Like getting their whole face f-d up bad - even people who had their dog a long, long time. Same deal as RodentRanger says, dogs knows you are NOT a dog. You're to be their "leader" not a dominant pack member.

New studies suggest that wolf packs dominant leader changes depending on what activity the wolves are engaging in at the moment. New information out there.

I have heard of training in puppy class when your puppy gets overly anxious, excited to hold them in your arms like a baby, apparently then even when they are older all you have to do is hold them like that and they calm right down.

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Postby Toddp » Thu Jul 26, 2007 4:07 pm

Call me old fashion, or just plain ignorant, but I am not going to nurture a misbehaving animal by cuddling with it. Dogs are smart enough to realize that cuddling= good and being put on it's back is not nearly as comforting. So I would think that a dog would more than likely continue the behavior so it will get picked up and cuddled with. Seems obvious to me.

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Siberian
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Postby Siberian » Thu Jul 26, 2007 4:12 pm

Call me old fashion, or just plain ignorant, but I am not going to nurture a misbehaving animal by cuddling with it.
ditto

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Postby westcoastbullybreedlover » Thu Jul 26, 2007 4:52 pm

I don"t see any thing wrong with this, in a way it controls your dog. Myself and BF both put my dog in submisve lay for a while after he has done something wrong. Its not hurts them, it helping them. Now that hes 10 months if he did something wrong he puts himself on is back without any help from us. Or he will just lay on the floor with his head between his legs and the tail between his legs. Its showing them that they aren't the boss, but when he does something good them he gets love and kisses. Sorry but this breed that we have all learned to love are very powerful, and if you don't teach your dog disaplain then they will walk all over you. They need to know where they stand in the pack, and anyways dogs are much happyer when they know they are part of the pack.


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