Crate-Rotate..was it a choice?

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drtrider2000
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Postby drtrider2000 » Sat Oct 13, 2007 9:41 am

Dakota Spirit wrote:
I'm curious as to what makes you think it is giving a less the favorable impression of the breed. Many APBTs are DA, saying otherwise really is doing a disservice to the dogs as it gives people a false image. The "crate and rotate" situation seems to be a light at the end of the tunnel (so to speak), in my mind.



i don't recall saying i was concerned about "giving a less favorable impression of the breed"..i was refering to seperatism within the houshold. My question was originally internded for the people that do crate/rotate...i was curious if they brought an additional dog into the home with the intention of crate/rotate? or did circumstances force this issue. Obviously, we do what we have to do, i was just wondering how many poeple do it by choice.

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elegy
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Postby elegy » Sat Oct 13, 2007 9:42 am

i have three pit bulls here and i hope to never have to crate and rotate. that would be so much less fun than three dogs in bed, three dogs on the couch, three dogs romping together. so i work very hard to keep things under MY control, to keep potential for dog disagreement to a minimum, and cross my fingers.

dogs are separated when i'm not here. two are crated, the old man is loose. both young dogs are crated at mealtime as well, while the old man is, again, loose. all three have gone to obedience class, all three work for their cookies, all three get time to do mommy-and-me things.

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Rumpley
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Postby Rumpley » Sun Oct 14, 2007 1:52 am

You know what's funny about this thread, in an ironic sort of way. I wonder how much the dogs enjoy "crate and rotate"? I doubt very much.

I've always struggled with the idea that we want to keep pets under the same roof that want to destroy each other. I wonder if that is "healthy" for the dogs? Thoughts?

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Postby Rumpley » Sun Oct 14, 2007 1:53 am

Darn no edit.

I also meant to say - to state the obvious that they enjoy it more than being eaten by other dogs, but literally don't you think this dogs that hate each other might just be happier being an "only dog" in a household?

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Postby Allie » Sun Oct 14, 2007 7:02 am

Rumpley wrote:Darn no edit.

I also meant to say - to state the obvious that they enjoy it more than being eaten by other dogs, but literally don't you think this dogs that hate each other might just be happier being an "only dog" in a household?


Do you think it is acceptable for owners to rehome their personal pit bulls, then, because they are dog aggressive?

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drtrider2000
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Postby drtrider2000 » Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:57 am

Allie wrote:
Rumpley wrote:Darn no edit.

I also meant to say - to state the obvious that they enjoy it more than being eaten by other dogs, but literally don't you think this dogs that hate each other might just be happier being an "only dog" in a household?


Do you think it is acceptable for owners to rehome their personal pit bulls, then, because they are dog aggressive?


this question wasn't aimed at me, but i'd like to give my input...I think that it is wrong to bring a dog into any home with the initial intention of making it spend a high percentage of it's time in a crate (ther are exceptions like rescue, and foster which should be only a temproary situation). To bring a dog into the home to later find out it is DA, and there is a need to crate rotate is, in my opinion, not the same as putting a dog in a crate until you have time to deal with it, or geting a dog knowing full well that you will have 30 minutes to let it out of it's crate in the morning, only to put it back in for 10+ hours until you get home from work, let it out, let it stretch it's legs for a couple hours (thats IF you don't have any after work activities)only to be put back in the crate til the next morning.

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rednoseErnie
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Postby rednoseErnie » Sun Oct 14, 2007 12:17 pm

I only have one dog, he is dog aggressive. I have considered getting another, a female, and maybe they would get along, but the chances of having to be uber vigilant, and possibly crate-rotating, have kept me from adopting.

In my case, I don't want to get into that lifestyle, so I don't get another dog. Yes, I think my boy gets more individual attention because of it. On the other hand, there are pitbulls being euthanized that I could have adopted, and given a good life to. So, I can see how the "quality of life" argument can work both ways.

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Postby mypuppyJack » Sun Oct 14, 2007 6:03 pm

When Ruthie came I was strict with crate/rotate and didnt let them near each other for a month or so- and slowly introduced them- always with a lead on Ruthie

Jack really likes other dogs and loves to play- especially tug, so after awhile I was able to let them play and now they do very well together. I walk them separately though.

Now they spend all day together. My husband is home so they don't get crated unless he goes out

If we are all gone then Jack has freedom of the house and RUthie gets put in a spare room only because she likes to chew stuffed things and blankets- even if she is left with a raw bone or bully stick- she still tries to destroy couches, beds, shoes

I am glad for us that they can be together supervised- it was stressful during the crate and rotate time!

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Postby Rumpley » Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:57 pm

I only have one dog, he is dog aggressive. I have considered getting another, a female, and maybe they would get along, but the chances of having to be uber vigilant, and possibly crate-rotating, have kept me from adopting.


To me, that is a very responsible thing to do. However I get what you're saying about being able to save one more as well.

To answer the other posters question about whether I agree it's okay to rehome a pit bull because it's dog aggressive - yes and no. If you have 2 dogs who's sole purpose is to gut each other, then perhaps I would think about it. I can't imagine it is anything less than equally stressful for the 2 dogs as it is to the owner. Would the dogs be happier being only dogs - probably.

If you're rehoming your one Pit Bull in the home because it's dog aggressive - no. Dog aggression is what it is, but sadly a lot of people won't deal with it.

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Postby BabyReba » Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:47 am

I don't actually "crate and rotate" because I rarely use crates in my house. But I do have one dog (Doc) that can't freely mingle with my other 2 dogs for everyone's safety.

I didn't go out looking for a dog to bring into my house that could not be around the other two, it just so happened that Doc needed a place to be and after trying hard to find a home for him and not having any success, the options were to keep him or put him down. And putting him down was not really much of an option, since I am more than capable of giving all the dogs really good, active, fun lives full of work and play even if I did have to install a permanent metal gate at the doorway to my kitchen to keep dogs separated as needed. It's just not that big of a deal.

I'm sure Doc would rather have free run of the house to do whatever he wanted, whenever he wanted and be an only dog. And he was an only dog in his last "home," which gave him up before I got him. In that home, as an only dog, he was destructive, fat, bored, crated for 8 hours per day, and under-exercised. But he had free run of the house as an only dog.

In my house, he does not have the luxury of free roam and he is not an only dog and he can't sleep on my bed or whatever; but he's not destructive here, he's not fat, he has work to do, he plays/exercises for about 1.5 to 2 hours per day (broken up into half-hour or so segments), he doesn't have to be crated, and he has a pretty enriched life.

I still think, even separated from the other dogs, that he's better off at my house than at the single-dog home he was in just prior to mine.

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Postby luvnstuff » Mon Oct 15, 2007 12:12 pm

I live with a DA dog. He is able to run loose in one are of the house.
in between where he is. there is a baby gate (just to keep him from going at a door where the other dogs are kept)., a lock on the door, and the other dog behind that, sometimes Scooter is crated and sometimes she gets her own room .
The foster dog is in the crate room, where Scooters crate is too, and he too is locked behing a locked door where Jack is blocked due to the baby gate.

I dont mind crating the foster dogs, my world can remain a mud platter, their forever home can give them more freedom. And for obvious reasons they have to stay safe from my DA dog, or I could easily ruin a dog.

I didnt intend on keeping my bully, Scooter, she just got the lucky ticket. So its crate/room/rotate or put her to sleep.
She takes it well, and when I say "go to your room Scotoer" she goes to her room.
If this stressed her (I had another foster that this life stressed her and she would hide and run from me..sad..) I would not keep her in this world.
But she gets lots of play and I have to let her RUN and excersicse as much as possible or again, she would go bonkos, as she is high drive.

Jack my older dog, gets shuffled alot.but he doesnt seem to mind, and barks when he is tired to go to "his" room/ (my bed room) where he will go to his doggy bed.

So, shuffling is a way at my house.
Some dogs seem to be very content .. but not all of them.
Meatball, who has been with me too long is starting to bark and whine in his crate. I HATE THIS..but he cannot be out with me all the time, as he is already way too bonded to his foster mommy.
I would never keep him for this reason alone.
(not that I can even afford another dog by any means)

But he doesnt take the shuffling as well, and its sad.

Scooter could care less. AS LONG AS SHE GETS HER TIME.

so..its a way of life at my house.

And with the DA dog in the house, I would never add yet another dog to this mix. One mistake and the whole thing is violtile .
I am use to it..but many think its nuts..

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Postby RodentRanger » Mon Oct 15, 2007 12:38 pm

I keep my dogs separated when we aren't home, but so far between *my* dogs, I have not had any problems with aggression. As Kailie transitions into adulthood and genuine maturity, she is becoming less tolerant of other dogs. So far, her issues have only been with other females.
I had been sitting a female retriever for a few years until recently (when the dog snapped at my son), and had been having to rotate the girls while Lucy was here. Kailie would be in the bedroom with a bone, and Lucy would be loose in the rest of the house for several hours, then we would switch them, or Lucy would go outside for a while, or the baby gate would be closed or whatever. We kept them apart and managed it just fine until Lucy made it too risky for her to be here.
Kailie was not DA at all when I adopted her at 10 months. She went to dog daycare daily and was never in a fight. It has only been in the last 6 months or so that her tolerance has diminished. Crating was only a way of life when we weren't home originally, but as she ages, it may turn into routine crate and rotate. I'm fine with that, as there is no way I'm rehoming either dog for being what they are.

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drtrider2000
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Postby drtrider2000 » Mon Oct 15, 2007 2:13 pm

at 9 months old, Bella is not DA (i know that can change) but she is crated when we aren't home, and at bed time, because she is capable of being very naughty...otherwise, she has run of the house.

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Postby Red » Mon Oct 15, 2007 2:17 pm

I've always struggled with the idea that we want to keep pets under the same roof that want to destroy each other. I wonder if that is "healthy" for the dogs? Thoughts?


Dogs who want to kill each other are a pain in the rear but it often comes with the territory.I doubt someone brings a dog home knowing it is going to try his hardest to kill another, in the house.It is not a good selling point.
But once you find out the dog in question is heavily dog aggressive what do you do? To find a decent home is not easy at all.
My Jack came in as a foster and spent 11 months living peacefully with my older male.Slept together, ignored each other, good body language, not a single issue.No reason to separated them.One day he grabbed the old male out of nowhere, by the neck, and it took a breaking stick to separate them.Because of the level and intensity of the aggression, and the fact that it had no triggers, no reason and zero warnings, that was the last time they were in close contact.
Jack's dog aggression increased with the time, as he matured.Right now this dog lives behind a 8 foot fence and inside a home with several tall metal gates.He goes in the yard, paired with only one of the females.If the other female or the rest of the males needs out Jack is put into a separated yard with locking gate.Locked in a room or covered kennel if I leave and has to be carefully managed both in my home and around other dogs (obedience classes for example).

Given the opportunity he can be a liability and therefore finding a different home is not an option.He has troubled me at times and I sure would like for him to be less dog aggressive but I don't feel to pass him onto someone else.Like I said, a multiple pit bull home require that people are aware of the risks.You can raise a dog from a puppy and still end up with a dog aggressive animal.Or you can pull a dog who seems reasonable and end up with an idiot.Mind you, I crate only one dog during the week, for a maximum of 4 hours per day.We have random sonic booms and that dog has sound phobias so being inside a crate means he is prevented from hurting himself.
Certainly, if I could not offer anything better than crating long hours I would not have more than one dog.The dogs here are happy and there is 5 of them.Nothing unhealthy about the way they are kept.They all get one on one time, exercise, socialization, obedience classes, long walks out in the desert.The only thing some of them cannot do is to be near one another.

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Postby luvnstuff » Mon Oct 15, 2007 2:39 pm

Good grief maybe the DA is in the NAME Jack :huh?:

hah..j/k

but two dogs named Jack sound like they have the same level of DA!
(my da is jack)

I have found out now that I do literally have the house and rooms in a lock down , my DA dog is MUCH more calm.
Trying to force him to be nice, and behave, and expect him to be better than his own limitations can allow was STRESSFUL.. on him, on me.
Why push him?
he is now 9 1/2 and I have lived three years now under supreme crate and rotate/gates and locks on the doors, and he is calm and much more responsive to ME.
I have taken away the point of conflict by controlling the house.

NOW, I think it would be NICE if I didnt have to do that.. but hes my dog,
I love the beast and this is the way it will be now.

And if and when he does get the opporutunity to run at a door to bark and yap..he still will,but now with the safe guards up I dont have the risk of a dog fight any more.

As barking at a closed locked door doenst really trigger much from the other dogs. And I can grab him with no conflict


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