Breaking up a fight with 2 or 3 dogs

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GoughNuts
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Postby GoughNuts » Sun Apr 27, 2008 12:03 am

Red wrote:Maybe some video might help those who have never used a breaking stick.
The videos are of one of my females playing on the flirtpole.A breaking stick is used to make her release.Of course this is a lighter situation than a real fight but you can get an idea of where the stick can be inserted and how to "work it in".The tug toy is rabbit fur so it is especially valuable to Tigger and when she grabs she is not wiling to release.Sometime she holds it with her front teeth and sometime the tug is all the way to the back of the mouth.
I pull the toy up, so it is easier to see the stick.Of course, there is no pulling done in the case of a fight.You will see that it takes me only a few seconds to open her mouth so the stick can be a useful tool.
I have some video of Tux on the flirtpole and he tends to shut his mouth even closer when he sees the breaking stick.There is very little room to work with and it might be helpful to see.As soon as I upload the videos I will post them.
Hope it helps.



http://reddawg.smugmug.com/gallery/4007811/1#233229909



Red - I recognize you are instructing and or advising what to do. I clearly understand this is an emergency situation. I have come to to this forum to learn. What I have learned from this is that there is plenty to be scared about. I am sure I am naive, new, or just in awe from what I just read.

I greatly appreciate your knowledge and instruction on what otherwise seems like a hopeless situation. I plan to listen and learn. This is a wake up call that I have a lot to learn.

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sparkplug
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Postby sparkplug » Mon May 05, 2008 8:18 pm

leash choke works great. cant breathe, cant fight.

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AddyBaby
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Postby AddyBaby » Wed May 21, 2008 2:34 pm

So I had a very frightening experience recently and I've been running it over and over in my head and I can't think of a better way I could have handled it. I would like some advice please.

We had gone swimming (on leash) and were laying in a field afterwards. There was a dog on either side of me when suddenly the fight erupted over top of me. I do not know what caused it as it was so subtle I did not notice.

They were both on 6 foot leashes, one around each wrist but I was lying down. I reached up and grabbed their collars and had one in each hand. I yelled "stop" once. And they broke but went right back at it. There was no place to tie them to and no one to help. I was on my knees and twisting their collars trying to pull them to the ground, unsuccessfully.

It felt like it was going on forever. So I let one dog go and put my hand in her mouth using my forearm then upper arm to force her to let go. Probably not the smartest idea but I believed they wouldn't bite me and I was starting to panic because I couldn't get them to the ground and I couldn't cut their air supply off.

When I was in college I played rugby and we used to have tackling practice constantly. This was crucial for me as a small player b/c there is a certain way you can hit someone to ensure they will always fall (and fall safely) no matter their size, speed, or position. After this incident I feel like I need tackling practice with my dogs and a more experienced owner.

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Red
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Postby Red » Wed May 21, 2008 11:27 pm

AddyBaby, was your car far away? If you are by yourself, with two dogs and nowhere to put at least one of them then it can be a problem.
One of the reasons I don't take two dogs unless one crate is with me or the car is left nearby.Or there are trees or fences in reach.Even if you are strong enough to hold them both by the collar and they are serious about a fight then they will go back to it as soon as you release them.

So I let one dog go and put my hand in her mouth using my forearm then upper arm to force her to let go. Probably not the smartest idea but I believed they wouldn't bite me and I was starting to panic because I couldn't get them to the ground and I couldn't cut their air supply off.


If one dog was holding then you did the right thing by letting go of the holding dog to work around his mouth. You need to buy a breaking stick though, because it is luck that you were able to use just your hand to make the dog open his mouth.Some bite so hard it is difficult to even insert the stick sometime.And you do risk to get your fingers in the way, even if the dog does not mean to harm you.There isn't really that much to do in that situation, because you cannot separate the dogs.But if you do get them both by the collar try to keep one close to one of your leg, and hold him there, with his head turned away from the other dog's face.So they cannot both look at each other.Interrupting the visual tunnel and one loud "enough" might stop a fight from escalating.The more they engage each other face to face the worse it gets.
How did you manage to stop them at the end?Were they injured?

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AddyBaby
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Postby AddyBaby » Thu May 22, 2008 12:18 pm

Red wrote:AddyBaby, was your car far away?


The car was a hike away. I wasn't alone there was just no one there to help. A friend was there but she was holding off her dogs to keep them from joining. There was also several other people at the beach - they were just starring.

Red wrote:If you are by yourself, with two dogs and nowhere to put at least one of them then it can be a problem. One of the reasons I don't take two dogs unless one crate is with me or the car is left nearby.

This is what my hubbie suggested...
That is just so disheartening after all the training we have done to control and manage reactivity. I want so bad for them to be able to be "normal" dogs. Sad, that no matter what training I do or how much I work with them I'll never be able to take them anywhere.

Red wrote:Interrupting the visual tunnel and one loud "enough" might stop a fight from escalating.The more they engage each other face to face the worse it gets.

My verbal interrupt stopped it for a moment but just a moment. Next time I'll know to keep them from looking at each other.

Red wrote:How did you manage to stop them at the end?Were they injured?


Someone ran by. As soon as they did the dogs stopped. I am not sure why.

We were all really shook up. Some pretty serious scratches and bruises all around but thankfully nothing serious.
We walked back to the car. They spent the rest of the day in their travel kennels.

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uid0
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Postby uid0 » Fri May 23, 2008 10:14 am

Red,

Great information! I actually printed this out years ago and gave copies to my old vet and kennel. My ex and I have demonstrated the use of the breaking stick to many who were unaware.

Unfortunately, about 8 years we were in a situation were we had to use them when our old jack russell mix went after our first pit bull. It was truly amazing how fast we broke them a part using breaking sticks.

I keep one in every room in the house. So does my ex. I take one with me when I take the dogs for a walk. I have given more of them away than I can count.

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bassol808
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Postby bassol808 » Mon Sep 01, 2008 8:26 pm

I wish I had read this before Oreos attack at the dog park..... :sad:

but I did keep in mind what our trainer said "use the leash as a choker and choke the dog...that way they will fight for air and let go"

so now I ALWAYS keep Oreos leash on...I let him run around with his leash still attached ha.ha...it looks funny cause its just dragging all over the place but at least I can get to him easier and not to mention I have the leash there in case he ever gets attacked again....

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Postby bassol808 » Mon Sep 01, 2008 9:01 pm

no I havent done it yet...

the day that Oreo got attacked (by a pitbull mix and a lab)....I didnt even know what to do I panicked and thought "OH NO MY BABY" I had Oreos leash on him but I didnt think to choke the other dogs with it....instead I tried to kicked the pitbull mix in his neck so he would have to gasp for breath and let go...I found out from my trainer that I had the right "idea" but wrong "procedure" ha.ha..so he told me next time to use the leash as a choker instead of trying to kick the dog and risk getting my leg torn up...

before the attack I would always keep Oreos leash attached in case he decides to try and run away....or go somewhere hes not suppose to...so I let him walk around freely without me holding the leash but the minute I see him wander or his attention goes elsewhere I step on the leash...

but now even more I make sure to keep in on because in case some butthead dog wants to beat on him again...I have the leash right there to choke em....

although I hope it doesnt ever happen again.....

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TJ LMX
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Postby TJ LMX » Thu Oct 16, 2008 5:18 pm

Very nice information Red, thank you for take the time to post this :thumbsup:

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pits-r-luv
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Postby pits-r-luv » Wed Dec 31, 2008 8:49 am

Choking a dog down should be a LAST resort. It is far better to learn to properly use a breakstick. It is so easy and there is a reason they have been used forever by Pitbull people. It works and works well. Even a child can learn to use it. A grandma can learn to use it.
If there is nothing handy to tie a dog off, use the car door. Put the leash in the door and slam it shut. It will work long enuf to get them apart, I have had to do that on one occasion.
I know an inexperienced person looks at a breakstick and says Oh dam, that looks like it would be hard to use on 2 fighting dogs, but the beauty is in the simplicity. Give it a good honest try.

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k1sf
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breaking up a fight among 2 or 3 dogs

Postby k1sf » Fri Feb 13, 2009 9:15 am

Thank you,i hope never it will happens my dog will fight but is a real hard one sometimes,in fact i hope never lose control about him,now thank to you i feel a little bit quite.To a friend of mine happened 3 times now is a.....teacher

Monokaryotic
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Postby Monokaryotic » Wed May 06, 2009 2:38 am

I don't get the twisting part. Aren't you supposed to slide it towards the back going in an up and down motion? Turning I would thing would not only stab the dog but could also have the potential to cut into the gum, and cause the tounge harm.

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Red
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Postby Red » Wed May 06, 2009 4:31 am

Monokaryotic wrote:I don't get the twisting part. Aren't you supposed to slide it towards the back going in an up and down motion? Turning I would thing would not only stab the dog but could also have the potential to cut into the gum, and cause the tounge harm.


Once the breaking stick is inserted it gets twisted with the same hand motion you would use to turn on your car, after the keys are inserted. Might be a poor comparison but I cannot think of anything else at the moment. Motorcycle throttle maybe? You might cause some bleeding on the gum if you are having trouble working the stick in but that is not what one should need to be concerned about when there is a hold and dogs are trying to kill each other. An internet friend of mine was telling me about a yard fight he had and the fact that he chipped a tooth (or broke it by the gum, I am not sure) which seemed a big ordeal to him. Dude, did you get the dogs off each other and both dogs are okey? That's what matters. You can buy a root canal if missing a tooth is the end of the world and you can buy antibiotics for a cut on the gum but the priority would seem to me to be another.

Monokaryotic, here is a video of what it looks like, although you have to keep in mind that there is no shaking and my females is holding on a flirtpole toy and not a dog. Quite a valuable item to her but certainly not the same situation:

Last edited by MikeInTacoma on Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: New video tags

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MikeInTacoma
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Postby MikeInTacoma » Wed May 06, 2009 5:36 am

Twisting like you would twist a motorcycle throttle is exactly right.

One thing about Red's video -- you'll normally be straddling the dog from behind, not in front (since the dog will be biting another dog, not a flirtpole toy), using your thighs and knees to immobilize the dog's hindquarters, and pulling back on the dog's collar or scruff of neck with the hand that isn't holding the breaking stick. But it does nicely show the twisting motion you'd use with a breaking stick, and how quickly it can be inserted and twisted.

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pits-r-luv
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Postby pits-r-luv » Wed May 06, 2009 7:24 am

Red wrote:
Monokaryotic wrote:I don't get the twisting part. Aren't you supposed to slide it towards the back going in an up and down motion? Turning I would thing would not only stab the dog but could also have the potential to cut into the gum, and cause the tounge harm.


Once the breaking stick is inserted it gets twisted with the same hand motion you would use to turn on your car, after the keys are inserted. Might be a poor comparison but I cannot think of anything else at the moment. Motorcycle throttle maybe? You might cause some bleeding on the gum if you are having trouble working the stick in but that is not what one should need to be concerned about when there is a hold and dogs are trying to kill each other. An internet friend of mine was telling me about a yard fight he had and the fact that he chipped a tooth (or broke it by the gum, I am not sure) which seemed a big ordeal to him. Dude, did you get the dogs off each other and both dogs are okey? That's what matters. You can buy a root canal if missing a tooth is the end of the world and you can buy antibiotics for a cut on the gum but the priority would seem to me to be another.

Monokaryotic, here is a video of what it looks like, although you have to keep in mind that there is no shaking and my females is holding on a flirtpole toy and not a dog. Quite a valuable item to her but certainly not the same situation:



Exactly. X2 The object is to STOP the fight as fast as possible with as little harm as possible, I have stopped many fights and with no harm to the teeth or gums. Relax, and do what you need to do. Yelling/crying.... all this does is rev the dogs up. Stay calm and get them apart.
Last edited by MikeInTacoma on Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: New video tags


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