-Remote shock/correction collars?-

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Cboy1
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-Remote shock/correction collars?-

Postby Cboy1 » Tue Dec 04, 2007 9:55 pm

So Bruno has been with his Petsmart trainer for nearly 3 month's now and he's a GREAT dog but the one and only problem he has is jumping. When he meets and greets people he loves to jump on them as if he's about to climb on top of them. At certain times it frustrates both me and his trainer plus other people around him. So last week during a training session his trainer suggested I try out this remote correction collar that either shocks or does an annoying pitch sound. He calmed down like crazy but it only lasted for like a few hours after I took it off of him. Does anyone here use the shock/correction collar, if so does it alter their personality at all and does your dog resent you at all for using it?

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Kingsgurl
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Postby Kingsgurl » Tue Dec 04, 2007 10:02 pm

What store are you training out of?

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Linariel
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Postby Linariel » Tue Dec 04, 2007 10:03 pm

That's odd. Petsmart trainers, as far as I know, aren't supposed to recommend that stuff.

Dogs learn when they have a certain collar on they can't do certain things. Take it off, and they do them. That's why it's not always effective.

Isn't Bruno just a baby? I wouldn't put a shock collar on a young dog.

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Postby Kingsgurl » Tue Dec 04, 2007 10:04 pm

The use of shock/correction collars is strictly prohibited by PetSmart and your trainer should be aware that he will be terminated should anyone find out.

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chako
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Postby chako » Tue Dec 04, 2007 10:36 pm

Petsmart is strictly positive. E Collars (or shock collars) are tools that really should NOT be used by the general public. They can be GREAT tools... in the right hands. However, they are very easy to abuse, and yes you can screw up a dog with it if you don't know how to use it.

Used properly, however, they can be way more humane than choke or pinch collars, a lot safer, and a lot more effective.

But I wouldn't be going to PETSMART to learn how to use one (interestingly, I believe they SELL them at the store... either they do or petco does) :)

I also wouldn't buy one I found at their store. Those are usually innotek. I'd go with Tri tronics or Dogtra and I'd pay megabucks from someone who knows how to use it and knows how to find the dog's lowest level.

You can sit there and feel the levels on these collars and know what the dog is feeling. BUT for jumping, I really wouldn't recommend you try a shock collar. You may just make your dog afraid of people if you don't know how to use it correctly.

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Postby Red » Tue Dec 04, 2007 10:38 pm

Your dog gets probably very excited over people and what he needs is not a correction, but to learn an alternative behavior that still gives him something good in return.

At certain times it frustrates both me and his trainer...


Trainers cannot become frustrated when teaching something to a dog.Perhaps learning some skills is more productive than suggesting someone to shock their dogs for something as minor as jumping on people.
I am sorry to say (well, not really) but only an imbecile wants to put a shock collar on a 6/7 months old pup.
Don't accept that to be done to your dog.There are other ways.What part of Orange County are you in?

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Re: -Remote shock/correction collars?-

Postby Julie K » Tue Dec 04, 2007 10:49 pm

Cboy1 wrote:So Bruno has been with his Petsmart trainer for nearly 3 month's now and he's a GREAT dog but the one and only problem he has is jumping. When he meets and greets people he loves to jump on them as if he's about to climb on top of them. At certain times it frustrates both me and his trainer plus other people around him. So last week during a training session his trainer suggested I try out this remote correction collar that either shocks or does an annoying pitch sound. He calmed down like crazy but it only lasted for like a few hours after I took it off of him. Does anyone here use the shock/correction collar, if so does it alter their personality at all and does your dog resent you at all for using it?


The reason he is jumping up is because he is overly excited. Compulsion is not going to teach him how to control his emotions.
Check out the bridge and target thread and sticky on teaching conditioned relaxation, and I believe Kayce just wrote about dealing with this problem. It's basically identifying a preferred greeting position and supporting that effort.
Julie K

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Cboy1
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Postby Cboy1 » Wed Dec 05, 2007 12:16 am

Linariel wrote:That's odd. Petsmart trainers, as far as I know, aren't supposed to recommend that stuff.

Dogs learn when they have a certain collar on they can't do certain things. Take it off, and they do them. That's why it's not always effective.

Isn't Bruno just a baby? I wouldn't put a shock collar on a young dog.


Really cause that's what he recommend that I try it out because so far I've tried the squirt bottle(failed), soda can with coins inside(failed), basic commands like "no!" and "off!" And yes I've tried the back turning method and/or leaving the room method but still nothing. He also recommended it because they sell all types of shock/pitch collars at Petsmart so which is why he said try it out and I did cause they had a used one at the store and it worked wonderful. Bruno is actually 6 1/2 months and weighs in at 60lbs so although technically yes he still is a pup but he still has brute force like a full grown Pit.

And back to the whole frustration, it does frustrate the trainer because A) whenever we do loose leesh walking around the store Bruno tends to jump on just about everyone during the training session B) he doesn't really stop until we continue to involve more and more treats which isn't helping much because we're sorta encouraging bad behavior but don't get me wrong we give commands before we give treats C) our trainer has seen every side of Bruno and said try it because it worked on his brothers Pit and a few female workers in the store have Pits as well and said they'd rather use the shock collars instead of the pinch collars. Oh and don't get me wrong either we don't ever shock Bruno, we only use the pitch noises on a very low level.

And I'm located in 562/714 part of Orange County.

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Postby crazy4pits » Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:41 am

Cboy1 wrote:
Linariel wrote:That's odd. Petsmart trainers, as far as I know, aren't supposed to recommend that stuff.

Dogs learn when they have a certain collar on they can't do certain things. Take it off, and they do them. That's why it's not always effective.

Isn't Bruno just a baby? I wouldn't put a shock collar on a young dog.


Really cause that's what he recommend that I try it out because so far I've tried the squirt bottle(failed), soda can with coins inside(failed), basic commands like "no!" and "off!" And yes I've tried the back turning method and/or leaving the room method but still nothing. He also recommended it because they sell all types of shock/pitch collars at Petsmart so which is why he said try it out and I did cause they had a used one at the store and it worked wonderful. Bruno is actually 6 1/2 months and weighs in at 60lbs so although technically yes he still is a pup but he still has brute force like a full grown Pit.

And back to the whole frustration, it does frustrate the trainer because A) whenever we do loose leesh walking around the store Bruno tends to jump on just about everyone during the training session B) he doesn't really stop until we continue to involve more and more treats which isn't helping much because we're sorta encouraging bad behavior but don't get me wrong we give commands before we give treats C) our trainer has seen every side of Bruno and said try it because it worked on his brothers Pit and a few female workers in the store have Pits as well and said they'd rather use the shock collars instead of the pinch collars. Oh and don't get me wrong either we don't ever shock Bruno, we only use the pitch noises on a very low level.

And I'm located in 562/714 part of Orange County.


All I can say is WOW. I am a trainer at PetSmart and I would never recommend that. I don't want to lose my job either. I tell all my people just keep working at it and they will get there and have had success. Gizmo does not jump up to greet anyone. Have you done the Sit polietly for greeting? How I teach it is to get the dog in a sit and let him nibble on a treat the whole time someone is petting him under the chin. If they stand up from the sit but don't jump I usually let it go the first couple of times. That is how my dogs learned to sit for being petted.
At home,when they jump I don't turn my back or leave the room. I would just stand there and look up at the ceiling and ignore them. I would fold my hands under my arms. After a few minutes they would stop. Then I would reach down and pet them. If they were standing I would say Good Stand or if they were sitting. Good sit. They no longer jump up if invited. When company came over, they would be put on a leash and would have to sit and wait. They don't jump on company anymore either.
Read up on the other stuff posted too. But the key is you need to be consistent, it's not gonna happen overnight.

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Postby kristakmj » Wed Dec 05, 2007 7:13 am

i have to leash sierra when people come over so i can give her the sit command and then she gets attention, also i never pet her without her sitting first,

as to the shock collar i have never used one i cant tell yah

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Postby Linariel » Wed Dec 05, 2007 11:45 am

the point of not using shocks on a pup has nothing to do with their size and strength, but their mental development at that age. The trainer shouldd be reorted-hes blatsntly going against company policy, with a pup no less.

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Re: -Remote shock/correction collars?-

Postby Nelson » Wed Dec 05, 2007 12:40 pm

Julie K wrote:Compulsion is not going to teach him how to control his emotions.
Julie K


Wise words from Julie here. You hit the nail on head. Dogs, especially puppies will go tenaciously after the one thing that rewards them the most from us humans. And thing is our HANDS! That's what give them their petting, their treats, their food, etc. Yet the first thing people do when they have a pup come to them and jump is precisely raise their hands as if signaling "I surrender" lol. If you put yourself in the pups' (or dogs') position and imagine just how high they (humans) have put the "reward". Effect? Now the dog thinks he realy has jump higher to get to his reward. So actually the dog is being negatively conditioned to jump as high and frequently as possible to get his reward.

There're many simple solutions to this problem. Yet every dog should be taken upon individually. My best recomendation to you would be to look for good professional dog trainer or sport dog training club who can guarantee the training in writing.

Nelson

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Postby ShadowWolf » Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:10 pm

Absolutely not on the e-collar training! I can't believe that your trainer recommended that! That's absolutely appauling. Petsmart trainers should NOT be recommending those collars no matter how much they're sold.

Be patient with the jumping. It can be corrected with time and patience. I always tell my students that they WILL get it if they put the WORK into it. Dogs don't generalize. This needs to be practice EVERYWHERE constantly.

A trick that has worked with Ryker (he used to be a horrid jumper) is a firm negative (I looove to use "WRONG!") and ignore him until he put all four feet on the ground and THEN reward the behavior.

Now, don't get me wrong, I still allow him to put his paws up, but only on my okay. I personally, if I were a student at a Petsmart class, would be speaking to the manager about that. Petsmart trains in an almost soley pure positive method.

And as to finding a dog club? That's an option too, but try and put faith in the training methods that Petsmart uses (they're not all bad if correctly used) - they do have a guarantee that you can take the class again if not completely satisfied.

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Postby Cboy1 » Wed Dec 05, 2007 7:57 pm

Well keep in mind people we never shocked Bruno, we only used the pitch noise to correct him so I don't see the harm? And our trainer is awesome, he's always concerned with Bruno even when I'm there to just shop. He actually favors Bruno a lot from all the dog's he's had in his classes overall cause he likes PB's as well. I'll try and resort to other methods to correct him because for sure the ignoring thing does not work for him it only makes him shove me rather than jump on me.

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Postby ShadowWolf » Thu Dec 06, 2007 8:58 am

Unfortunately, the collars that Petsmart sells are pure and absolute garbage. Innoteks drive me up the wall and I can't believe they're still around. I will admit, I have own and have used a Dogtra collar but it's primarily for proofing distance obedience on my dogs that know their commands already and never more than the vibrate function as a reminder to keep on with what they're doing.

You also have to remember that Bruno is a puppy. Puppies cannot be expected to have complete control over their emotions at the age that he is. He will eventually learn if you continue to work with him on it every single day. No puppy will be 100% trained at the end of a class on jumping. I have an 8 month old in Intermediate right now that occasionally needs a reminder about putting her feet on people, but she's slowly getting it because her owners put a LOT of time and work into her.

The motto of working with a puppy, to me, is "Patience, timing, consistancy and supervision 110% of the time" because a puppy is like a child in the aspect that they're still learning and growing in the world around them and having to learn the house rules of the folks that they live with.

I also would never rely on a Petsmart trainer to teach you how to use an e-collar ever. Petsmart's training program doesn't even touch on them. If it were a do or die situation where there was a major risk to the dog and owner (and maybe even the dog's possible living situation) would I suggest one and only with another recommendation of a professional who knows how to use and operate one.


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