Two Weeks! Give em a break! :0 )

Tricks, obedience, behavior, and more.
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luvnstuff
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Postby luvnstuff » Tue Mar 25, 2008 4:40 pm

abnormalsanon wrote:I'm bringing a new foster into our home tomorrow, and I have a few questions for you. Due to logistical issues and city living, we have a few problems with doing a full shutdown for our foster guy, Piggy. Can we:

-Let our pits (Keely and Bart) into the foster dog's room while he's crated during the shutdown period? This would be to prevent tantrums from Bart, who can't stand being left out of any room I'm in--especially when there's a new and interesting dog in it.


Nope. A dog especially an excitable one (wether happy or not) can make the dog feel instantly defensive in the crate, drawing a line of defense at the door. You are going to have to control your own dog (and the new dog will see this and appreciate that you are in control not the dog).

This is a big and common mistake, and what we miss is quiet and very subtle clues from the dogs that can lead to big arguments later on.

Lets put it like this, Bart runs in, New dog sees it as a HOLY MOLY who is that, and poses in defense (common-as this dog has NO bonds in your home and will feel that no one is there for HIM) Bart sees this and begins to make a check list ...
Two weeks later the dogs are together and already they have a check list of memories and you to the new dog arent the leader (for what leader would of let Bart rule ..Bart looks more the leader)

abnormalsanon wrote:-Go for walks as exercise? We have a 15 x 20 foot paved "yard" and basically no fenced green space nearby. I wouldn't let people give him attention, and I wouldn't introduce him to other dogs. Nobody in our neighborhood wants to pet a pit bull anyway! lol

Thanks for any advice :)


No walks are the whole world again coming at the dog. Remember dogs are very sensory, sight is the last thing they use, the world is full of things, smells, sounds, you, if something happens (scary things to the dog, or anything-noises, cars, etc) the new dog now is being pulled on leash ( conflict) or being corrected (again conflict topped with unfair correction) if something happens (loose dog) then dog is feeling defensive and again no one is there for him , so he thinks.

A dog wont die for lack of two weeks of no excercise, throw a toy in your small back yard and get him happy playing and running around, but no walks just yet.

Remember the two week shut down is really for the dog to learn YOU and to know that you are worthy of him looking up to!

:thumbsup:

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Postby abnormalsanon » Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:46 am

Thanks for the reply, luvnstuff! We really want this to work, so we will follow your guidelines exactly and hope for the best. I think I need to get past the idea that he will go insane without serious exercise for two weeks. I plan to give him bones stuffed/frozen kongs in his crate, and play a little ball in our teeny back yard for his daily playtime.

We decided to crate him in our basement during the shut down period, since it's not anyone's territory and is a nice, private area for him. It has plenty of windows and sunlight, and since only a thin pine floor separates the basement and first floor (you can literally see into the basement where there are knotholes!), he can hear every step, every voice, the TV, radio, etc right above him. I'm sure he can smell us and our dogs as well. The dogs can't see him but can smell and hear him. The cats can see him because they have access to the basement, but they're smart enough to leave him alone.

He does have to see our dogs when he goes outside to potty, since their crates are by our back door. Other than that though, they won't have any contact for the next two weeks.

Bart marked our stairs this morning in protest, but so far he hasn't barked back at the foster dog, who has been making quite a racket. Bart used to be a real hellraiser who could bark for hours on end, so trust me when I say that's something to be proud of! :tongue:

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Postby luvnstuff » Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:05 am

That sounds like a great set up, so new doggy can take in all the new world , safe and in his own terms ! Good!

ah.. Bart left a bit of Pee Mail did he? lo l !!

yea.. boys gotta love em.

here is a thread for kitty and dog intro that really works for my foster dogs!
http://www.pitbullforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 17&start=0
might help ya too.

great job! update when you can!!
:thumbsup:

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Postby abnormalsanon » Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:21 am

luvnstuff wrote:That sounds like a great set up, so new doggy can take in all the new world , safe and in his own terms ! Good!

ah.. Bart left a bit of Pee Mail did he? lo l !!

yea.. boys gotta love em.

here is a thread for kitty and dog intro that really works for my foster dogs!
http://www.pitbullforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 17&start=0
might help ya too.

great job! update when you can!!
:thumbsup:


Glad you approve of our set up. I think it will work well. And as an added bonus, the barking is muffled to the outside of the house by the thick stone walls!

And yes indeed, Bart said he is NOT impressed by this little intruder!

I read your thread as well as a few others on introducing cats to foster dogs, and the info is excellent. The problem is that we have multiple cats, so it's not like we can control their whereabouts. That means mr. foster man will be leashed to me at all times until we know how he'll do. I think the fact that he will be able to see the cats stroll by his crate in the basement will help, though I suppose it could also give him two weeks to think about how delicious they'd be...we'll see.

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Postby luvnstuff » Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:38 am

abnormalsanon wrote:
luvnstuff wrote:That sounds like a great set up, so new doggy can take in all the new world , safe and in his own terms ! Good!

ah.. Bart left a bit of Pee Mail did he? lo l !!

yea.. boys gotta love em.

here is a thread for kitty and dog intro that really works for my foster dogs!
http://www.pitbullforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 17&start=0
might help ya too.

great job! update when you can!!
:thumbsup:


Glad you approve of our set up. I think it will work well. And as an added bonus, the barking is muffled to the outside of the house by the thick stone walls!

And yes indeed, Bart said he is NOT impressed by this little intruder!

I read your thread as well as a few others on introducing cats to foster dogs, and the info is excellent. The problem is that we have multiple cats, so it's not like we can control their whereabouts. That means mr. foster man will be leashed to me at all times until we know how he'll do. I think the fact that he will be able to see the cats stroll by his crate in the basement will help, though I suppose it could also give him two weeks to think about how delicious they'd be...we'll see.


duuuuuuuuuuude.. or ma'am :))
I have had at the same time, three cats (one deaf and 1/2 blind so he runs in circles..) a cat that thinks she is a dog (follows dogs and rubs on the dogs)..a scardy cat (eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee !! MUST RUN!) a loose 1 1/2 pound ferret, and an unreleasable opossum.
ALL loose in the house ...

so no excuses... l o l.
The trick is to satisify the dogs curiosity then install that the cats are no big deal! :thumbsup:

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Postby abnormalsanon » Fri Mar 28, 2008 7:30 am

Ok, here's a day two update:

Foster dog is doing okay with his shut down. I tossed a very fluffy comforter in his crate and he looooves it. I'm giving him PB-filled kongs and such to keep him quiet, and he's going out to go potty 5-6 times a day. Sometimes he gets a 15 minute break to play a light game of fetch, other times he potties and sniffs for a few and then we go back to his crate. He's eating well and hasn't even had poo issues.

He's barking a LOT, but only when he hears stuff going on in the house--especially doggy toenails on the floor above him. I ignore it and don't let him out of the crate until he stops. The barking sessions have gotten shorter since Wednesday night when we brought him home, so that's a good sign. I'm hoping by week two, the barking will be to a minimum.

Now for the bad: he definitely would like to get a mouthful of my cats! I have to walk him through the kitchen to get to the backyard, and he has seen two of them so far. Both times, he displayed that drivey fixation. Since he has zero leash manners, practically no training, and no real relationship with me yet, it's tough to get him to redirect. He doesn't care much about treats. I guess I can try redirecting with a ball or toy and see if that works.

So...progress in some areas, disappointment in others. I'm trying to stay positive and think happy thoughts about making this situation work. I know it's only day two, and very little can be expected so far.

Question: for the safety of our cats until we can give him some basic training, we are considering moving his crate to the mudroom after his shut down period. THis is where our dogs are currently crated--it's a small room between the back yard and the kitchen with doors on either side. We would move Keely's crate to her room upstairs (where she sleeps at night) and crate Bart and foster dog next to each other. Good idea? Bad idea?

Whew! Thanks for listening :)

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Postby luvnstuff » Fri Mar 28, 2008 7:49 am

yes the mudd room is fine, and that way he can not see or build on kitties , and with the other dogs there, just make sure the crates (if possible) are side by side, NOT nose to nose (this can bring on crate defending).

I throw a piece of cardboard between my metal crates, so they can peek over at each other, but arent in full view (gives a spot for time out and that way any butt head dogs cant stare and posture at new dog).

This is a nice way to acclimate dogs, I actually suggest post two week shut down doing this for a WEEK before introducing one dog at a time in the 4th week. :thumbsup:

As for kitties,be SURE the dog is on a leash, 4 foot (we dont want a running charge) , just say one time "LEAVE IT" and one yank if necessary and keep going, do NOT make kitty an object of conflict.
He will have to accept kitty.period.

I have had some really doozies come in the house ..two I thought by the way they CHARGED the kitty (on leash) I was not going to be able to break it.. But the method worked!! IT really did,,

see this pictures, the black with the cropped ears was one of the "For sure" eaters of small animals, and the big brindle too.
http://www.pitbullforum.com/viewtopic.p ... c&start=45
(page 4 if the link goes to page one?!)

Just remember dont YOU react to the cats..just whistle LITERALY, (its hard to feel stressed when you are whistling !!!) and keep moving the dog along.

And if sitting, just whistle as you pretend you are a tree (dont freakin budge) if doggy charges, and be SURE to praise with a pet and a good dog if and when the dog returns on his own to you!!

:thumbsup: you can do it!!!! :thumbsup:

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Barking CONSTANTLY

Postby abnormalsanon » Mon Mar 31, 2008 2:37 pm

We decided to wait and test Piggy with cats later. My girlfriend thinks he needs more time before we do a one-on-one, and I agree.

But oh my god, the BARKING. It has gotten worse every single day. At first it was just some lonely howls, but now it's 10-30 minute barking sessions just about anytime we're home. I'm sure it's frustration and anxiety, partially from having to be crated so much, as well as from hearing other cats and dogs in the house. Is there anything I can do to reduce it? I never reward him for it--no talking, no scolding, and certainly no going downstairs or attention while he's doing it. I only take him out of his crate or feed him dinner when he's being completely quiet. Pretty much anytime we do something new (e.g., watch TV for 30 min, then get up and cook dinner) he starts again and it takes him quite a while to calm down. Just now I took him outside, put him back in the crate, and he's been barking for 10 min while I've been upstairs not making a sound.

It's stressing out everyone in the house--animals and people included--and though the neighbors say they can't really hear it, I would be seriously pissed if I heard a dog barking for 15 min nonstop at 6am, no matter how muffled.

I think I'm losing my mind from this noise...

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Postby luvnstuff » Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:29 pm

oh..the singing... yes.. it can drive one nuts. It is part of some dogs finding out that they are ok alone. And yes.. it drives us humans nuts.

Really he needs to bark it out.. but (!) that is easier said than done.

Be sure he is getting excercise outside in your yard..small or not..throw a toy one zillion times. make him sit one zillion times for pets...maybe give him a bit more house time with the other dogs away. Do find me for food with his dinners in the house to make him think .

How long are you into this.. just over a week?

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Postby abnormalsanon » Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:23 pm

luvnstuff wrote:How long are you into this.. just over a week?


Five days! It sure is challenging though...whew. Don't know how some of you folks foster again and again, I totally respect it. Thanks for responding to my posts. You don't even know how helpful it is to get a little perspective, especially when the sounds of barking has fried your brain :skurrd:

I know barking is a normal part of adjusting to a new place. I'm just about to lose it because it actually seems worse than before! Man oh man, I forgot what it was like when I brought Bart home and he barked for weeks!

We're doing our best with exercise in our teeny yard, especially with his paw still healing (cut when previous owner let him run off leash in the woods). I'd be going nuts in that crate too, so I can't blame him. A new video of the cutie--you can see the "yard" we're working with here:

<center><object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/xnyJwolO-rE&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/xnyJwolO-rE&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object></center>

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Postby Roxers » Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:33 pm

I have a similar problem! We just hit the two week mark. Rosco started barking a lot toward the second half of the second week. I would never go into his room while he was barking, but sometimes it went on for a long time. I just moved his crate into my room next to Roxy (put some cardboard in between) thinking maybe it would help for him to be around us. I think the barking is getting worse now that he can see me though. I tried just ignoring it. Lately I have tried leaving the room every time he starts to bark, then coming back in after he is quiet for a few moments. Thus far, it doesn't seem to be working great... but maybe. Is this a good practice? Should I move him back into the other room? I think he may be a bit starved for attention... he's still a puppy (7-8 months) and he is very sweet and also has a lot of energy. I don't let him out in the house too much because he tries to eat everything, and we just got done with the shutdown. His hip is bad so I am hesitant to let him do too much running around, but I need to get rid of his energy somehow... we started some light flirt-pole work today and he liked it a lot. I guess I just need to work on more exercise and gradually having him out in the house more (on leash of course) but there are a lot of times where I have to be just sitting at my computer studying, and I need him to learn to be still. Also I feel bad having to lock Roxy up while he is out (she wants to play with him all the time). I guess that is a lot of questions, but the main problem is the barking. If he doesn't stop I am seriously considering finding someone to adopt him (which I was considering from the beginning anyway.. he was a stray I picked up and I wasn't sure if I wanted two dogs).

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Postby luvnstuff » Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:14 pm

First off.. OMG is Piggy CUTE!! What a smart face too!

ok..since he knows drop it , and get the ball.. work on his mind.

Doggy areobics.. sit.. wait.. throw.. drop it.. sit... IF he knows down do sit..down..sit..down..throw the ball..drop it.. sit ..down...sit...down...
(dont enforce down if he doesnt know it..down is a slightly submissive move and we dont want to "force" the dog down..but if he knows it..use it!)

Have you tried tugging with Piggy.. same thing.. sit..wait.. play hurt bunny with the tug.. .then tug tug tug... let him have the tug..then drop it...
start again.

And Roxers.. it might be best to move back to the quiet spot.
My best advice is patience..as they get more comfy he might become a bit needy and want to be out more..which is ok.
Keep working on "outside" is play and fun..and get that spring pole or a tug working him.
"Inside" is calm.. but a doggy blanket or bed at your feet and start reinforcing that is his spot when you are in the house.

Patience +a shot of Jack + a bendry = bliss Zzzzzzzzzzzz
roflmao

I know its hard to get thru the barking stage.. some really find their voice, but focus on when they are out more, this will subside.
Its part of the re birthing /baby stage..
WAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa !! :crybaby:
And its hard in small yards to get excercise..but try new ways , be inventitive , remember working the mind and body wears a dog out so much faster. A good 20 minute tug session can wear out most new in the home dogs.
Piggy seems to have great focus-use this!

I have had a few singers , and man it does test ones patience.
So I really sympathize with you!

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Postby Roxers » Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:39 pm

Ok. Thanks!! I just wasn't prepared to deal with a puppy! I thought Roxy was bad sometimes.. but she is an angel compared to this guy. He definitely got more comfy and more needy. They are both being very good right now.. sleeping. Too bad I have to wake them up to go out and potty. I will see about moving him back to the other room tomorrow (it's really my roommate's room but he lives with his g/f now). We are working on training.. he has learned sit and we are working on down. He was starting to get it this afternoon when someone knocked on the door and interrupted us. He is already taking benadryl for his skin... but it doesn't seem to do anything to his energy level. lol At least he's cute and super-sweet... right? :deep breath:

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Postby SadiesHuman » Tue Apr 01, 2008 9:50 am

Okay - here's a question. Not sure if its an odd one or not. lol

Can the two week rule be implimented to "reboot" their system?

If you remember I've posted plenty of things of Sadie becoming DA and some of the issues I've had with her. Without realizing it, I was using this idea, for a little longer than 2 weeks though..oops. Anyway, Sadie all of a sudden, after being taken out of the doggy world and reworking on basics has suddenly gotten better in the doggy world.

Her and mookie have been doing fabulously, and both even watched 2 hours of tv with us the other night. We keep things quiet and reserved, haven't really let them play or anything yet. But they go up to each other, sniff, lick, and cuddle near each other.

So, can this method be used to "reboot"?

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Postby luvnstuff » Tue Apr 01, 2008 11:26 am

SadiesHuman wrote:Okay - here's a question. Not sure if its an odd one or not. lol

Can the two week rule be implimented to "reboot" their system?

If you remember I've posted plenty of things of Sadie becoming DA and some of the issues I've had with her. Without realizing it, I was using this idea, for a little longer than 2 weeks though..oops. Anyway, Sadie all of a sudden, after being taken out of the doggy world and reworking on basics has suddenly gotten better in the doggy world.

Her and mookie have been doing fabulously, and both even watched 2 hours of tv with us the other night. We keep things quiet and reserved, haven't really let them play or anything yet. But they go up to each other, sniff, lick, and cuddle near each other.

So, can this method be used to "reboot"?


Yes it can! My trainer actually had me re-boot my dog at FIVE YEARS.
Did it make a difference, along with training ME obviously (to stop spoiling and ruining my dog).. yes it did.

It made my dog less decisive, and less aggressive, post re boot and retraining us, the dog will actually take a step behind me when we encounter other dogs, before he would charge like a rabid benji on crack.

So it helped re start , it didnt FIX him completley but I now have much better control of him and he looks to me more than he ever did.

But, beware of falling to complaciant( spelling? ).. or too relaxed, be sure you are being fair to both dogs and am not pushing a dog past his point of tolerance.
We all fall prey to this and then go back and say whoooops "got way to relaxed and cocky!"

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


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