What to do after a tussle?

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buster!brown
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What to do after a tussle?

Postby buster!brown » Thu Apr 10, 2008 7:03 am

After reading the "Debunking the Dominance Theory" post I really started thinking about the way I've established dominance over my dog. I was wondering what everyone's thoughts are on what to do after two dogs get into a scuffle. In the past, if the dogs fought over food or something, I'd separate them and then alpha roll both of them until they calmed down, as Cesar shows. What is the alternative to this - were I to choose to no longer use the alpha rolls? I appreciate the input! :)

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Postby luvnstuff » Thu Apr 10, 2008 7:29 am

I am glad you stopped the alpha roll.. I believe that really confuses the dog.

When there is a tussle at my house, both dogs are treated equally.. I dont CARE WHO or WHAT started the skuffle. Period.
I grab both dogs, put them in a SIT next to me .then put both of them away. period.
no treats to go in the crate..no dinner if its dinner time (they will get it later), no nothing.
Crates really arent used for punishment..but in my house that is their area.. well that isnt true.. the foster dog goes to his crate, Scooter goes to her "room". So each dog really goes into their "Space" but no niceitys.

Most dogs instantly will go into "oh sheet" mode, BUT, to back up I work really hard at establishing me as their calm and fair leader , so there is no need post a skuffle to re establish it..they know, and it shows in their faces.

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Postby luvmypitties » Thu Apr 10, 2008 8:56 am

I really dont do anything after a scuffle. If you think dogs in a normal pack will have little bouts to have their ranking in the lower half of the pack. We have had a few little bouts here and there and I seperate the dogs so it doesnt escalate into anything more than the little scuffle. No dog gets punished in anyway. As long as the dog knows that you are the ultimate dominant one there should be no issues as none of the dogs are challenging you by their fights with the other dogs in the house.

Also the look of 'guilt' isnt guilt at all as dogs arent creatures of morality, they dont know right and wrong. We ahve to teach them that over time and they learn things you dont like by the way you act but they dont know that that is necessarily 'wrong'. The 'guilty' look is actually a look of apeasement or submissiveness. The dogs arent stupid and can tell when you dont like what they did or what just happened. Even if you have your dogs sit and then put them away it really gives the dogs more time to go at it if they wanted to and you dont 'gain' control back as you never really lostit in the first place. I hope all that made some kind of sense...lol

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Postby Finnigan » Thu Apr 10, 2008 9:09 am

Geez, I've never really paid attention to this Cesar guy...horrified to see he has reintroduced the so called alpha rollover to an unsuspecting public :thumbs down:

Only once have I ever seen a dog rollover for another dog. I was introducing a female pitmix (new roommate dog) to my resident male dog. It was a ritualized display, and she VOLUNTARILY rolled on her back for him. There was no force involved, he didn't physically make her!!

Gawd, and here I thought the coming of the so-called anti christ would be some politician :twisted:

Anyway, my dog's have only had a few minor scuffles over the years. Split second, (at the onset) HEY! And placing myself between them assertively. That is all it has ever taken. Then I turn and walk away. That is it. No punishment, no lingering anger.

If relations are continuously strained, one should look for underlying causes. Leadership is important...being the calm, consistent authority, but this whole alpha rollover crap is....crap.

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Postby The Teflon Don » Thu Apr 10, 2008 9:11 am

Finnigan wrote:Split second, (at the onset) HEY! And placing myself between them assertively. That is all it has ever taken. Then I turn and walk away. That is it. No punishment, no lingering anger.


I have never had any issues between my two dogs, but we have had issues with a friend's lab and both of my dogs a time or two.......every time I did exactly as described above and things went back to normal in a split second! :thumbsup:

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Postby luvmypitties » Thu Apr 10, 2008 9:45 am

The Teflon Don wrote:
Finnigan wrote:Split second, (at the onset) HEY! And placing myself between them assertively. That is all it has ever taken. Then I turn and walk away. That is it. No punishment, no lingering anger.


I have never had any issues between my two dogs, but we have had issues with a friend's lab and both of my dogs a time or two.......every time I did exactly as described above and things went back to normal in a split second! :thumbsup:


I do the same but once one of my dogs gets turned on by the fight we have to seperate them for a bit or else they will keep trying to go abck at it. Affter about 10 minutes seperated they will come back out and be fine, lick each others faces and curl up together.

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Postby Finnigan » Thu Apr 10, 2008 9:49 am

Finnigan wrote:Anyway, my dog's have only had a few minor scuffles over the years. Split second, (at the onset) HEY! And placing myself between them assertively. That is all it has ever taken. Then I turn and walk away. That is it. No punishment, no lingering anger.



I wanted to add, that in that split second or two...I mean business....an involuntary response, and mental strength (not physical strength) summoned from within. A mental strength a dog can understand, not question and not challenge. "Fighting is not tolerated. Period."

Reacting after the fact is pointless. The message delivered split second timing at the onset is key. Never a single scratch or injury in my household.

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Postby buster!brown » Thu Apr 10, 2008 9:49 am

Thanks, everyone! I appreciate your help. :thumbsup:

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The Teflon Don
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Postby The Teflon Don » Thu Apr 10, 2008 9:50 am

Finnigan wrote:
Finnigan wrote:Anyway, my dog's have only had a few minor scuffles over the years. Split second, (at the onset) HEY! And placing myself between them assertively. That is all it has ever taken. Then I turn and walk away. That is it. No punishment, no lingering anger.



I wanted to add, that in that split second or two...I mean business....an involuntary response, and mental strength (not physical strength) summoned from within. A mental strength a dog can understand, not question and not challenge. "Fighting is not tolerated. Period."

Reacting after the fact is pointless. The message delivered split second timing at the onset is key. Never a single scratch or injury in my household.

EXACTLY! :thumbsup:

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Postby Finnigan » Thu Apr 10, 2008 9:51 am

luvmypitties wrote:I do the same but once one of my dogs gets turned on by the fight we have to seperate them for a bit or else they will keep trying to go abck at it. Affter about 10 minutes seperated they will come back out and be fine, lick each others faces and curl up together.


If separation for a while is important, then do it. The adrenals (fight/flight)can take a while to return to normal.

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Postby luvnstuff » Thu Apr 10, 2008 9:51 am

I think I put them away for dog skuffles freak me out. I am always fine during, just afterward.. but once things settle down I start to shake, and I dont want my dogs to see that. :oops:
Must stay "on top" and not look weak.. l o l.
I had an experience with a dog fight a few years back, (non pit but it was horrid) and since then I kind of loose it.

Later I will get both of them out together, (again no favorites) and everyone is happy go lucky.


I also have to add, that if they are usually arguing over something (toy or whatever) I take it right away and let them know its MINE.
:0 )

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Postby The Teflon Don » Thu Apr 10, 2008 9:53 am

luvnstuff wrote:I think I put them away for dog skuffles freak me out. I am always fine during, just afterward.. but once things settle down I start to shake, and I dont want my dogs to see that. :oops:
Must stay "on top" and not look weak.. l o l.
I had an experience with a dog fight a few years back, (non pit but it was horrid) and since then I kind of loose it.

Later I will get both of them out together, (again no favorites) and everyone is happy go lucky.


I also have to add, that if they are usually arguing over something (toy or whatever) I take it right away and let them know its MINE.
:0 )


Makes sense to me....I guess there is no RIGHT answer to this scenario, just plenty of wrong ones lol

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Postby luvnstuff » Thu Apr 10, 2008 9:59 am

thanks for that Teflon Don.. that was a minor confession from me wasnt it?
l o l

I usually head right for a Jack and Coke too.
:thumbsup:

I really dont know why after all these years I panic so badly, guess I just have seen what CAN happen in an out and out , balls out dog fight, and gawd..it was horrible.

With all the foster dogs I think I have had only a few real minor skuffles. But I got control of them pretty fast. The worse was Scooter and Diesel , that was a holy moly one and me thinking , great..they are zoned out .. two HUGE pits (Diesel was pit/mastiff) going at it .. luckily I was attacked by the water hose, and they both came to save mommy. ..add another one of these icons :oops:

But regardless of the argument.. everyone treated the same.. even if there is blood and slobber all over (tounges bleed alot) , they get a toss in the crate or room until I CALM down.

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Postby Finnigan » Thu Apr 10, 2008 10:02 am

Of course, there are many variables. If you have 2 pits deciding to go at it seriously, 'splitting", ie, positioning yourself between the 2, may not be enough. Make sure you have a good understanding of the dynamics in your household, and always be prepared, and never take on more than you can handle; for example; more than 2 dogs going at it...like 3 or 4. But I'm sure there are stickies somewhere on this.....

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Postby luvnstuff » Thu Apr 10, 2008 10:05 am

Yup, Red wrote a great sticky about this subject.
http://www.pitbullforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 42&start=0

:thumbsup:

And too , folks be really careful getting in the middle of a dog fight. If just a loud snarky argument I just slam my foot between them, but as stated in the two bigger dogs already "zoned" there was no way I could of stepped inbetween them, as they had hit what I call the "Red" zone and in that point they usually have no idea WHAT they are biting, and we humans can get seriously injured .


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