At what point do you decide...

Why buy from a breeder when there are plenty of homeless pups in shelters???
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merriterrier
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At what point do you decide...

Postby merriterrier » Mon Apr 27, 2009 2:03 pm

That a dog in your rescue program is better off PTS?

What time frame, behavioral issues, etc are long/severe enough to decide it is in the best interest of the dog to be PTS?

How do you know if a dog is/has become unadoptable?

I would really appreciate any insight you rescue gurus have on this.

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Postby Maryellen » Mon Apr 27, 2009 2:44 pm

depends on the dog and what the dog has learned and how long it takes.. some folks will work months with a dog, some will work weeks, it all depends on the person and dog.. i know a rottie rescue out here once worked with a dog for a year before they put him up for adoption, to make sure he was adoptable.. which he was, he just needed extra time as it was an abuse case bottom line is what you feel about the dog and its perks and whether it can live a good normal life ..

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Amy Hendrickson
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Postby Amy Hendrickson » Mon Apr 27, 2009 4:43 pm

I call it quits when I question the dog's stability and the ability of the general public to own the dog. People do really stupid things with their dogs and they expect their dogs to tolerate an absurd amount of things.

It's Ok to keep a high maintenance dog around in rescue as long as you know you are going to hold out for the absolute perfect home, even if it is YOU and you will keep that dog for as long as it takes....most likely YEARS.

If you are pouring time, money and effort into a dog that frankly isn't a great example of the breed, it might be time to make the hard call. It sucks to come to that though. I've been there and it really bites.

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Postby BabyReba » Mon Apr 27, 2009 4:49 pm

i have button in my home right now, and i know he's not adoptable and will likely never be adoptable, though who knows--perhaps all of the work we've been doing will hbring him out of this wonky stage before adulthood. but right now i'm struggling with what to do next. i don't really want him as my third dog. but still, i don't feel ready to put him down . . . i'm not even sure why, i just feel like he desreves more time.

once upon a time, my answer would probably have been more straight-up: put them down if you aren't 100 percent sure that the dog is going to be a stellar adoption prospect.

i've learned a lot over the past few years though, and things just aren't as cut and dry for me anymore. but i guess that's why i don't really do much in the way of rescue anymore too.

good luck with whatever the situation is you are struggling with!

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Postby ProudMommy77 » Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:10 pm

Amy Hendrickson wrote:I call it quits when I question the dog's stability and the ability of the general public to own the dog. People do really stupid things with their dogs and they expect their dogs to tolerate an absurd amount of things.

It's Ok to keep a high maintenance dog around in rescue as long as you know you are going to hold out for the absolute perfect home, even if it is YOU and you will keep that dog for as long as it takes....most likely YEARS.

If you are pouring time, money and effort into a dog that frankly isn't a great example of the breed, it might be time to make the hard call. It sucks to come to that though. I've been there and it really bites.


x2

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Postby Victoria » Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:23 pm

Amy, excellent post.

I can offer my experience, and the choices I made:

I gave my last foster dog 3 weeks from the time he showed behavioral issues until I euthanized him. I did not set out with that timeline, that is just how long it took me to make a decision. He came to me very sick, and I felt it would be unfair and unjust to euthanize him until he had the chance to get healthy and have another evaluation.

I made my decision (and it was a very, very difficult one) when I admitted to myself that he could pose a threat to his adopters, or the public after he left my care. In his case, he was fear aggressive toward me. Never bit, but I am certain he would have if I were not careful. I think his fear toward me was due to his feeling very sick, and me having no other choice but to force pills down his throat. But after he was healthy again, he still chose to defend himself by growling at me, when I posed no threat. It was so sad, because otherwise he was so eager to please, and would follow me around so loyally waiting for me to give him a job to do. I think he would eventually have gotten over his fear of me and become happy and well-adjusted in my home - but what would happen in the future when he was adopted, and for some reason became injured or scared? Would he bite the adopter? a member of the general public? That is not a chance a rescue can take with this breed.

I also chose to euthanize a 4 month old foster puppy (pit bull/shepherd mix) who had fear aggression issues, and ended up biting my husband and breaking skin in multiple places. While there will always be those with the opinion that a puppy can be rehabilitated (and it is quite possible that she could have been). The bite was not in defense of a threat toward her, and her general fearful demeanor was such that I would not want her to get adopted out, only to later become a news headline.


The decisions that are really tough are the dogs who could be adopted, if you can find the perfect home - but those homes are scarce, and while that dog is deserving of a chance, they sit in your foster home or shelter, while other deserving dogs do not get a chance for a new life. On these dogs, I cannot really offer my advice. In some instances, I have recommended euthanasia, but never really wanted to do it. Other times, if this is an amazing dog, (just with a lot of can't haves... can't have cats, can't have apartment because he barks too much, can't have short fence because he jumps, climbs, needs to be crated when alone, should be only dog, has allergies, digs, insert issue here.... but otherwise, what a gem!) - those are the dogs who I just say keep them, for as long as possible in hopes of the perfect home, but only if you can keep their quality of life a good one while they wait.

msvette2u

Postby msvette2u » Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:27 pm

I decide, when you say to yourself, "OK, she/he has to go to a home that can manage this type problem", and you know in your heart that there's no home that will really fit that bill and even, EVEN if you found it, could they keep her/him safe and from harming themselves or others? Really, could they?

The few cases we've had to call it quits with, I have not felt like sharing on here because there's always going to be someone complaining that you should have/could have done this, that, or the other, and quite frankly, there's dogs who are scheduled to be put to sleep right now that do not have such-and-such issue and we need to focus on those dogs.

I think being animal control helps you understand the reality of not being able to save every one.
That said, it's never a fun thing to have to make those choices and I do seek counseling with close rescue friends as well as our own veterinarians when we do have to make them.

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Postby merriterrier » Mon Apr 27, 2009 9:42 pm

Thank you very much.

I don't want to go too much into specifics (b/c of this dogs specific situation I don't want to jeopardize my decision). But I will say that the dog in question has continually gone down hill (I honestly think it needs to be an only dog, and is not getting it's needs met here). I feel terrible, but I am starting to wonder how place-able this dog is.

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Postby airwalk » Mon Apr 27, 2009 10:08 pm

You always have to ask yourself, how much...how much time, how many resources, how much risk do I pour into one dog. How much do, while the rescue can manage the dog, do I really, in my heart, think there is a "regular" home out there that can manage the behaviors safely.

We have to celebrate the ones we save and mourn the ones we don't and know that there will always be another dog out there just waiting for us to save them.

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Postby Amy Hendrickson » Tue Apr 28, 2009 9:19 pm

Sometimes the very best you can do is to give that dog love and time to have a little bit of happiness before you help it cross to the other side. Every dog deserves a little bit of happiness even if it doesn't make it to a new home.

It sucks to make that call but it sucks more to get the call about the dog you adopted last year biting someone and the new owners call you to ask you what to do or it growled at the little kid next door and they freak. If you think the dog is a liability and are worried about someone being able to manage the dog safely - keep it or help it pass along the bridge.

The ones that haunt me are the ones that if my life would have been just slightly different I would have kept and managed.

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Postby merriterrier » Wed Apr 29, 2009 9:30 am

The thing is, in many many ways this dog is fabulous, and we love it very much. Some of the things I think are very manageable, and some I worry about more. I don't think this dog is a threat to society, but I'm starting to question whether it would be a dog that could go to your average adoptive home. I do not have a problem managing the dog, but I see that it does not have the same respect for people other than Morgan, my bro and I.

A year ago I would have said this dog was a stellar breed ambassador, but now...

I really feel as though I have somehow failed this dog, maybe if I had more time or more resources. :sad:

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Postby luvnstuff » Wed Apr 29, 2009 10:29 am

aawww merrieterrier.. I feel you pain, alot.

It is very true though , some dogs do NOT do well under the stress of a multi dog home. And pit bulls and look alikes/bullys can take FOREVER to find a home, yet alone an understanding home.

Its a fine line. I have no answers , other than I feel for you . I have been in your shoes..shoot I think I am IN your shoes right now, but less volitile of a problem.

it sucks..no way around it.

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Postby Maryellen » Wed Apr 29, 2009 10:36 am

i think you just answered your own question with this :

but I'm starting to question whether it would be a dog that could go to your average adoptive home. I do not have a problem managing the dog, but I see that it does not have the same respect for people other than Morgan, my bro and I.


when you start to question and make the statement "does not have the same respect" that is when you either keep the dog as your own or do what no one likes to do...

then again, what do you mean by : "it doesnot have the same respect for people other then"

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Postby merriterrier » Wed Apr 29, 2009 10:49 am

Maryellen wrote:i think you just answered your own question with this :

but I'm starting to question whether it would be a dog that could go to your average adoptive home. I do not have a problem managing the dog, but I see that it does not have the same respect for people other than Morgan, my bro and I.


when you start to question and make the statement "does not have the same respect" that is when you either keep the dog as your own or do what no one likes to do...

then again, what do you mean by : "it doesnot have the same respect for people other then"




Yeah, I think I did. :frown:

This dog is typically very good for Morgan and I, as well as my bro (who spends a lot of time here), but we are all on top of it. Other people, it's like the dog knows it can push them around. If you give this dog an inch it'll gobble up 2 miles. We had friends over for dinner sun. The BF is kinda a push over, the dog in question took full advantage of him (molesting him, climbing on him etc) and ended up muzzle punching the poor guy in the face. Needless to say the dog spent the rest of the evening in a crate. It's not that this dog is aggressive per se, but it is very pushy/dominant.

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Postby Murfins » Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:31 am

To me, and my opinion is not nearly as experienced as some of the others who have responded in this thread, it sounds like the dog needs serious boundries (NILIF) and a dog experienced home. A pushy/dominant dog - whether with people or other dogs, does not seem like a dog that must be euthanised, imo.


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