Duke update

Why buy from a breeder when there are plenty of homeless pups in shelters???
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thebluejackal
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Duke update

Postby thebluejackal » Sat Jul 28, 2007 7:56 am

I know I already posted something on Duke, but it's gotten VERY serious.

We're running out of options with him! Apparently he HAS bitten a human before seemingly out-of-the-blue along with that attack on Bobo. Stephanie said he has some sort of split-personality issue going on and the decision on whether or not he is at all placeable is looming close. The vet at the clinic where he was being boarded is NOT happy and he has NO other place to go.

He is going to need a REAL EXPERT or some kind of sanctuary to save him from the needle.

PLEASE, if ANYONE can give any suggestions, I would REALLY appreciate it!

He's a husky/lab mix and his PetFinder link is here:

http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/dis ... id=6268797

Stephanie hasn't had a chance to update his profile.
Last edited by thebluejackal on Fri Aug 10, 2007 2:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Lixx
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Postby Lixx » Sat Jul 28, 2007 9:57 am

Perhaps I am missing alot of the story, but why are you trying to save a HA dog?

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thebluejackal
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Postby thebluejackal » Sat Jul 28, 2007 11:30 am

He's a weird case. He doesn't act aggressive at all, he just has a weird mental quirk that has never kicked in with humans he respected. He's a lot like a Corgi I know that went to a more expert home.

This is just a last ditch effort.

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SueG
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Postby SueG » Sat Jul 28, 2007 1:39 pm

Any dog that bites without provocation should be humanely euth'd. I am sure that there are many husky/labs that would never bite that are looking for homes.

The "must save every dog" notion causes more harm then good most of the time.

chinaschik

Postby chinaschik » Sat Jul 28, 2007 2:52 pm

the best thing to do for the dog is to pts, its a liability and a risk to have a HA pit.

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thebluejackal
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Postby thebluejackal » Sat Jul 28, 2007 4:10 pm

We'll see. I didn't have the story completely straight and he has NEVER outwardly acted aggressive to people just coming up to him.

This is what happened in both cases:

He was in the back yard with the owners who adopted him the first time and wanted to play. When they turned around to ignore him, that's when he bit.

These were also people who did not keep him up on obedience training and let him get away with ANYTHING, so he thought HE was the boss.

See why we're not to hot to trot to just put him down?

He is very high energy and in NEED of a "job" and training. He is going crazy in the kennels because he has no outlet for that energy, which is why he went after the wolf hybrid and it escalated into a fight that the vet was able to break up.

I'm sorry I didn't have the story completely straight before; this is a dog that our founder has worked with, not me. He does everything she asks of him, but if anyone lets him get away with something, he goes to town with it.

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Postby stillhoneymooning » Sun Jul 29, 2007 3:55 pm

thebluejackal wrote:We'll see. I didn't have the story completely straight and he has NEVER outwardly acted aggressive to people just coming up to him.

This is what happened in both cases:

He was in the back yard with the owners who adopted him the first time and wanted to play. When they turned around to ignore him, that's when he bit.

These were also people who did not keep him up on obedience training and let him get away with ANYTHING, so he thought HE was the boss.

See why we're not to hot to trot to just put him down?

He is very high energy and in NEED of a "job" and training. He is going crazy in the kennels because he has no outlet for that energy, which is why he went after the wolf hybrid and it escalated into a fight that the vet was able to break up.

I'm sorry I didn't have the story completely straight before; this is a dog that our founder has worked with, not me. He does everything she asks of him, but if anyone lets him get away with something, he goes to town with it.



He bit someone because he was ignored when he wanted to play?

Sorry, but that is NOT a stable dog. There are pits who die every day in shelters that are loving, stable dogs. No one here means to sound callous, but no reputable rescue would open up a space for a dog who is human aggressive in ANY way and deny a space to another needy dog.

This dog should be PTS. He's a bad news story waiting to happen.

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Postby Maryellen » Sun Jul 29, 2007 5:04 pm

unstable dog. euthanize him. its hard enough to find good homes for sound dogs, and you want to find a home that can give him a job and work on his issues?? any dog that bites without prevocation is a huge liability and BSL issue ... you cant save them all, so why not work on the ones that are 100% sound with people instead?? and skip the sanctuary, who would want a dog that bit once let alone twice?

its the save them all mentality that has this breed in part of the problem they are in, besides the byb's who breed and let human aggression be put on the streets... you cant responsibly place a dog with a known bite history unless you want your rescue sued up the ass.

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thebluejackal
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Postby thebluejackal » Sun Jul 29, 2007 6:11 pm

He's a Husky/Lab mix, not a pit, and his actions coincide with a lot of the "alpha" issues that Spitz-type dogs can have--it's an issue with my Shiba/GSD mix sometimes, too, but I reinforce my place above her with NILIF and lots and lots of obedience training.

He has never bitten anyone who he considered above him in the hierarchy and his previous home let him do whatever the heck he wanted to, so he WAS the alpha and therefore free to take a snap in his mind if his underlings weren't paying attention to him. This is the reason why Stephanie was trying a last-ditch effort because she KNOWS it's an issue that can be fixed if the right person was willing to fix it.

Pits and other bulldogs are much better about alpha issues than Spitz-types. If you've never worked with a hot-headed Spitz-type dog, then this may seem like a worse issue than it actually is. He looks more like a Lab, but he DEFINITELY acts more like a Husky.

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Postby crazy4pits » Sun Jul 29, 2007 10:14 pm

Ok Pit or not the dog bit and it should be PTS, you are asking for trouble.
Regardless of the breed this dog bit for no reason. You say this is common for Spitz type dogs. Well none of my aunts dogs ever tried to bite me or anyone else and she has had Spitz for all of my 33 yrs I have been alive.


There are other dogs out there that do NOT have issues that can be saved.

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Postby buckaroo » Mon Jul 30, 2007 5:47 am

I hope you do run out of time and resources with this one. He is not a dog you should be trying to place.

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Postby Rico07 » Mon Jul 30, 2007 6:04 am

It doesn't matter weather the dog is a spitz type dog or a flippin chocolate. It has bitten before and attacked another dog. It is an unstable dog who in thei case would be nicer to be pts. If the dog is or has been HA then your best option is to have him pts. No offense but someone would have to be crazy to take in an unstable HA dog. Have him pts.

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klandmk
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Postby klandmk » Mon Jul 30, 2007 1:29 pm

I totally agree. Part of being a responsible PB owner/rescuer is knowing when to say when. It's admirable to want to save every dog but that's not at all possible and isn't responsible. There is a reason dogs who bite people are put down....it's because the dog has bit a human
Please - help the breed by putting efforts into a pup that is not human aggressive and have that one put down humanely. I know it's difficult honey but I think it's the best option.
:frown:

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klandmk
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Postby klandmk » Mon Jul 30, 2007 1:30 pm

Oh it's not a PB but still - help the canine race honey! Be responsible!

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thebluejackal
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Postby thebluejackal » Sat Aug 04, 2007 12:20 am

Nevermind, I know I could never fully explain the situation. It was NOT an AGGRESSIVE bite! I wrote my first post on very little sleep, so I apologize for that.

He obviously displayed bite inhibition both of the times he got excited and playful. When a dog bites like that then goes back to displaying play postures, it's an argument, not an attack. If it was an attack, these people wouldn't have just a couple of scratches to speak of.

He gets a temperament test tomorrow at 1. If he passes, he goes to another rescue in Iowa who has space for him and time to work with him extensively. If he fails, he gets euthanized on Monday.

Both of my dogs are Spitz-types with Kaya being half a pariah breed (Shiba Inu), both of them have bitten people, Kaya due to alpha issues (which she has now overcome with training) and Hazel (Corgi) due to fear and poor socialization. None of the bites drew blood, but one from Kaya bruised. Kaya would bite if someone who she did not respect reached for her collar to make her do something she didn't want to do. Now I can reach for her collar without an issue, even if she's groggy from sleeping which is when she was the most grumpy because she has now placed me above her in the hierarchy.

She and Hazel both test the hierarchy all the time and keep me and my partner constantly on our toes. This "testing" behavior is very typical of Pembroke Welsh Corgis and Shiba Inu. I have yet to see a Pit Bull test anyone and my foster Pit Zolf never questions his place underneath me.

(Cardigan Welsh Corgis, however, hardly EVER test).

And on the other side of the doggy spectrum, my parents' Golden Retriever bit hard enough to puncture my stepfather's hand through a moment of reversion to a time when he was abused when my stepfather raised his voice. All three of these dogs were rescues from three different rescues.

Should they all be put down?

If you have NEVER worked with dogs with Spitz-type personalities, I really don't think you'd understand the issues. Pits are down right placid compared to many of the Spitz-type breeds. The differences between my foster Zolf and my current two dogs are staggering.

MOST Pits simply don't have the alpha attitudes that Spitz-type dogs commonly possess since Pits were selectively bred to be exceptionally subordinate to people, so much so that they would fight to the death for them. Most Spitz-types were bred to be partners, not subordinates, and able to make decisions on their own and even sometimes counteract their handler's decisions. In other words, there are VAST differences in behavior in dogs from breeds hundreds of years old compared to a dog that didn't truly get going until the 20th century. If you asked a Spitz-type dog, ESPECIALLY a pariah dog, to fight for you when s/he didn't want to fight, they'd essentially give you the doggy version of the finger and go on about their way.

Stephanie, the head of our rescue, is a certified dog trainer. The person administering the test tomorrow, Angel, is the owner of one of the largest training facilities in the South and a Schutzhund enthusiast who does wonders with German Shepherds.

I am a Spitz-type and pariah dog enthusiast and have been practically forced to do a lot of research on training and controlling these dogs in order to keep on top of them. This has included gathering help from VERY experienced people including Angel and the woman who runs a Corgi rescue in Oklahoma who has worked with these dogs for around 30 years. I have also gone through multiple dog training classes and read book after book and article after article on dog behavior and training techniques. I am not uneducated on these issues.


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