5 week old pit pups need foster/homes NJ

Why buy from a breeder when there are plenty of homeless pups in shelters???

Postby Maryellen » Tue Nov 23, 2004 12:18 pm

which was very nice of the aco there, thank goodness. now lets just pray they are not human aggressive. keep your fingers crossed. i probably wont hear until after thanksgiving on their temperments.
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Postby dawgdays » Tue Nov 23, 2004 4:17 pm

now lets just pray they are not human aggressive. keep your fingers crossed. i probably wont hear until after thanksgiving on their temperments.


Not to be a wet blanket (again) but you won't really know how damaged these pups are going to be until they're closer to adulthood and on their own. I would guess all or most are going to be very 'special needs' dogs as adults; partially b/c the nervous systems of many of the ill bred blues we're seeing just aren't holding up to normal stressors, much less the well known trauma of early separation.

Best case scenario, keep them together as a group with an experienced bitch until they're 5-8 months old, socialize like crazy and then reevaluate for adoption potential. Some may need to be euthanized at that time if they just aren't holding up to normal everyday stressors. Once you've found homes for the pups that seem sound, you'll want an iron clad adoption contract that gives you the right to reclaim the dogs if they start sharking (fear aggressing) on people anytime after their adoption, and a game plan to check in on the dogs regularly for about 2 years. In addition to the temperament risks adopters will be taking on, some may experience the challenge of fear aggression towards other dogs at maturity...Classic blue dog funk, not to mention the health problems that come along with ill bred blues.

Wow - am I making pit rescue sound sexy or WHAT? :sad:

I know you guys have different plans and probably don't have the resources to be so strict, but I just had to get off my fingers and speak up.
We just euthanized a blue that lacked the nerves to succeed (which didn't become fully apparent until full maturity) .. so this is all fresh in my mind. It's no fun at all - Such is life as a responsible rescue though, eh? Good luck to all with this monstrous project you've taken on.
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Postby Maryellen » Tue Nov 23, 2004 5:04 pm

your advise is awesome. we just had to euthanize 2 3 month old blues due to human aggression. they bonded with only one caregiver, and her children and husband were not taken to. the pups repeatly attacked her 4 year old child who has been around puppies since he was born, and they would blatantly attack him while mom wasnt looking as soon as she turned around they were fine. they drew blood from the husband and child from biting, and at that age we did not feel comfortable with them at all with anyone. we had them for 2 months, and with all the socialization and two female adult pits who mothered them they were still dog and human aggressive. out here, they are breeding them more aggressive than the next. there was 3 pups but the bigger one killed his brother in the shelter the day before we got them. they were both challenging the adult dogs and any dog they met with hackles raised and baby teeth bared, and they greeted humans the same way. we will not even attempt to adopt out those type of pups even if they show minor improvement which one of them did. however, both would not wag their tails or show any enjoyment from human touch. we would rather do what we did then take a chance later on. we knew once they matured they would be aggressive to the point of no return. we are extremely strict with procedures, and go the extra mile for a case that could turn around. we do follow ups for the entire life of the dog, and unannounced home visits afterwards. we only adopt out the creme of the crop, like you, we must make sure the dogs are 100% sound .
Maryellen
 

Postby dawgdays » Tue Nov 23, 2004 5:14 pm

Holy crap. You're having some real fun out there.

I'm relieved that you're so strict with your standards and careful with follow ups. Too many rescuers ship compromised puppies off into the unknown, and that's the end of it. Makes me insane when so much can go wrong.

Again, good luck.
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Postby Maryellen » Tue Nov 23, 2004 6:39 pm

thanks , want to come here and help me??? trade in good ol sunny CA for NJ???? i could tell you stories.... i am waiting to see about the pups.i already put out a plea for a momma foster home.
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Postby dawgdays » Tue Nov 23, 2004 7:53 pm

Ohhh, You wouldn't want to work with me, MaryEllen. I'd just be prodding you to put the pups down now. See, the sunshine in CA makes us mean and crunchy. ;)
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Postby Maryellen » Tue Nov 23, 2004 8:01 pm

oh sure i would!! (guess what , we even have a spay/neuter sponsor who pays for all our speuters)
Maryellen
 

Postby Maryellen » Wed Nov 24, 2004 1:09 pm

nope, the girl told me she would be going to the aco's house this weekend to meet the pups and take pics. sheandher husband and child will be interacting with them to see how they are with humans. i might have a foster momma dog lined up too just in case.

once i hear from her i will let you know
Maryellen
 

Postby Dsmman » Wed Nov 24, 2004 1:52 pm

Thanks for the update. We'll be waiting. :hi
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Postby caped dog » Wed Nov 24, 2004 2:29 pm

Maryellen wrote:just found out the aco in CT has been keeping the pups at her house. :):) a fellow rottie vol/board member will be going there to evaluate the pups for me with her hubby and child and taking pics too for me. i still dont know how many there are yet.,or if they are male or female


This is both good and bad news. Good that they are out of the shelter... potentially bad because we mere humans tend to get our hearts invloved and lose rationality. This is an indentical scenario that caused me to propose shelter policy that outlines what goes into foster and what does not. Once pups are in your house, squeaking around and stinking up the place it is normal to want to scoop them up and protect them from all the worlds evils. Maryellen, *you* have proved yourself to be a fierce and realisitc rescuer. May that rationality carry you through and impact a postitive breed-savy outcome.

I admire that you are trying to intervene with limited info- however, it tears me apart when people promote animals they are unsure of, get people involved in projects where people in fact do not belong. Folks who scream save-the-babies or save this dog b/c he is on PBRC or Petfinder without knowing the first thing about the animal that has not undergone any sort of eval. make me freakin c-r-a-z-y. I do not save dogs because they are pits, I save dogs that I have touched, tweaked, challenged, tickled and pushed. Like dawgdays said, what you've got here you won't know for some time- does your contract allow impounding and euthanizing bad dogs if that is what is discovered on a surprise visit?

i *do* admire you. And admire the people that give the shirts off their back for animals. I most certainly do not want to knock you, hell, I need you! the onlything I keep coming back to is there will always be another needy puppy. true, these are there right now and need help, but we must choose our battles, and I for one, choose the battles that I stand a good chance of winning. If that sounds cheap or weak to anyone, c'mon over and swim laps through the pit bull infested kennels with me and tell me that you don't feel how critical prioritaziton is.. this is an adobe doc of one shelters "animal outcomes" btwn 8/8/04 and 8/18/04 http://www.cashelterfriends.org/f/Animal_Outcomes_August_8-18,_2004.pdf Maybe I am sour b/c this is what I live with. ANd for once I cannot locate the emoticon what captures just how much that SUCKS.
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Postby Maryellen » Wed Nov 24, 2004 2:46 pm

thanks:) yes, we can take back the dog if the dog exhibits aggressive behavior and pts. we are very careful when we place dogs that they are what the breed should emulate. with these pups, the decision will be made to take them or not once we get to see them and interact. then if we feel they have a chance they will go into foster care. if in foster care things change over time, we will do what has to be done. the president and i make all the ugly decisions, and we dont care what other people think,you know , the ones that think w/ their hearts and not their heads. we know what the breed should be like. we prefer to get good dogs from the shelters, we do not take owner surrenders. its so hard to save them all, we look at it as we must save the sound ones, the ones that are what the breed is all about. we also educate too. i have turned down potential adopters because after talking to them for 3 hours i dont feel they will do good by the breed. its biased true, but i am very tough with adopters. all the animals that get pts is very sad. we realize the sadness, but we deal with our heads not our hearts with the dogs that come into our program. we oversee the foster homes, and if the foster home doesnt abide by our rules they are canned. period. no second chances. we know how this breed is faring, and we are trying to help in whatever way we can. if only people would do their breed research, if only alot of stuff that cant be answered.... Caped Dog, you give great advise:)
we only take the sound dogs into foster, given these pups scenerio we are probably not going to take them in. hopefully if the aco agrees with us she wont adopt them out either. dont want another bad batch going out thats for sure. we also dont want them going to a rescue that wont care either. so if they come into us and we euthanize them thats fine too. if they are adoptable they will be adopted after they stay in foster care for many months. if they are not adoptable they will be euthanized. we also dont want themto go to a wanna be rescue either, one who has the save the world attitude and are tree huggers. its tough in rescue. some can handle it some cant. you have to think with your head at all times, thats for sure. before they even come into rescue i will be going to see them myself. if i feel they are a lost cause they will not go out.
Maryellen
 

Postby Dsmman » Wed Nov 24, 2004 2:46 pm

Wow, why were so many cats put down?
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Postby caped dog » Wed Nov 24, 2004 3:32 pm

Maryellen, You are a freakin' ROCK STAR ANGEL HERO CREATURE!! Image Image Image You have got it sooooo together. Sometime lets have a convo about how much it hurts to be rational and tough, I certainly meant it when I said *I* will be crawling to *you* for advice and support. Over time, we must work to impart our voodoo logic on the larger shelter system Image
Wow, why were so many cats put down?


Good question, dsmann. Not being a cat expert myself I'll answer you this, cats are largely outside animals ie, pleeeenty of opportunity to reproduce. Cats go into heat younger than dogs, and go into heat up to 4x annually as aopposed to the dogs twice. Cats, with their furry bellies, are more difficul tto figure out if they are spayed and can be even more difficult to tell if they are neutered. As kittens, gender can be difficult to tell, so roommates think they've got two little girls and then...ooops. Cats and kittens seem to be held in pretty low regard, except by true cat people, so it is not uncommon here to see many, many free cat/kitten ads on www.craigslist.org among other places. All those kittens go out intact only to make more kittens almost dang immediately. There are real cat people here, and a very involved rescue community, but we cannot do enough, fast enough. In the fiscal year 2004 that particular shelter PTS 200 *fewer* animals than the same time frame in 2003. Good for those 200 animals but not so great from a shelter that euths upwards of 20,000 animals a year. When in doubt, check this terrifying stat:
Over a seven year course one pregnant kitty can be responsible 420,000 kittens if she and all her offspring go on to reproduce. A dog and her offspring can produce 67,000 puppies in that same time period. http://www.hsus.org/ace/11830.


Am i just a bad news bear, or WHAT!!?
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Postby Maryellen » Wed Nov 24, 2004 6:00 pm

Thanks, i know there are others on this list that are the same way too. Lets thank all of them also.
Maryellen
 

Postby Dsmman » Mon Nov 29, 2004 10:19 am

Any update?
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