Interesting statement about "fixing your dogs"

Talk about diets, exercise, and disease.
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Ronin
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Interesting statement about "fixing your dogs"

Postby Ronin » Thu Oct 02, 2008 12:10 am

So, I had someone tell me today that they dont want to get there pit fixed because it will not "grow" to its fullest potential. I had never heard that befor but to the best of my knolege fixing the dog does not hinder its size or am i wrong?

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Misskiwi67
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Postby Misskiwi67 » Thu Oct 02, 2008 1:16 am

Actually... neutering can delay growth plate closure (uncommon, but common enough to be well documented) and make the pup grow larger!

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Postby jlphilli » Thu Oct 02, 2008 6:23 am

Misskiwi67 wrote:Actually... neutering can delay growth plate closure (uncommon, but common enough to be well documented) and make the pup grow larger!


x2

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Postby 1lila1 » Thu Oct 02, 2008 9:42 am

I'm not trying to hijack a thread but this is sort of a similar thing: I've heard that in breeds with large muscly heads (i.e. pitbulls, presa's, mastiff's, etc.) will retain a sort of feminine head shape if neutered early since the male hormones are so severely restricted before the body is full grown. I've heard dog breeders breeders advocate late neutering because of this. It makes some sense to me as male cats neutered young retain a more femine head shape and never get the big masculine "tom cat" face with the jowls. I wonder how this translates to dogs and if there's any truth to that myth?

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Misskiwi67
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Postby Misskiwi67 » Thu Oct 02, 2008 11:06 am

I think its absolutely true... and if you're after a big burly dog, then you should wait.

Personally, my female dog is more masculine than my male, and its a breed thing, not an individual thing. If you care more about looks, then do what you can to wait responsibly.

The problem is that the average Joe can't do it responsibly. We had two 9 month old intact male boxer mixes who got loose last week, and I cared for the chihuahua they attacked for 5 hours before it went into respiratory arrest and died. Not only did they maul the dog and its owner, but they followed the pair into the house and continued to attack the elderly lady trying to get to her dog. Would those same PUPPIES have done this if they'd been neutered 3 months ago? Testosterone and the pack mentality is a powerful thing! They certainly wouldn't have done it if they'd been adequately contained.

Personally, neutered is cuter if you ask me!

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The Teflon Don
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Postby The Teflon Don » Thu Oct 02, 2008 11:11 am

Is there any way to tell approximately how young a dog was neutered?

Not size/build...but maybe some other physical characteristics that could serve as a clue to give you an idea as to when it occurred.

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Postby 1lila1 » Thu Oct 02, 2008 11:13 am

I was hoping you'd weigh in on this, Misskiwi! That's interesting that it is actually true. I suppose if someone buys, say, a presa for guarding but still wants it neutered then they should wait. Of course the responsibility issue is always there. What a horrible story! I can't believe they were puppies!! My god!! :frown:

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Postby Misskiwi67 » Thu Oct 02, 2008 11:13 am

There's pre-puberty and post-puberty... thats about it :D And even then its a guess unless there are obvious signs of late neutering.

My parents German Shephard was neutered at the normal 6 months of age and he had delayed growth plate closure. They don't necessarily have to be tiny shelter puppies to show signs of early neuter.

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The Teflon Don
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Postby The Teflon Don » Thu Oct 02, 2008 11:20 am

Misskiwi67 wrote:There's pre-puberty and post-puberty... thats about it :D And even then its a guess unless there are obvious signs of late neutering.


So is there any way to determine (with the naked eye) whether it occurred pre-puberty or post-puberty?

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Postby Misskiwi67 » Thu Oct 02, 2008 11:21 am

Does he have a coin purse? Is he abnormally gangly for a purebred papered dog?

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The Teflon Don
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Postby The Teflon Don » Thu Oct 02, 2008 11:24 am

Misskiwi67 wrote:Does he have a coin purse? Is he abnormally gangly for a purebred papered dog?


Yes...he has a small coin purse...

Not at all gangly, though...

He is tall, but quite solid.

And he has a very little pee-pee lol

roflmao

Sorry if that is TMI :oops:

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jlphilli
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Postby jlphilli » Thu Oct 02, 2008 11:27 am

lol

It was likely that he was neutered before puberty since he is tall and has a small....well, ya know. ;)

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Re: Interesting statement about "fixing your dogs"

Postby retro » Thu Oct 02, 2008 11:28 am

Ronin wrote:So, I had someone tell me today that they dont want to get there pit fixed because it will not "grow" to its fullest potential. I had never heard that befor but to the best of my knolege fixing the dog does not hinder its size or am i wrong?



testosterone plays a role in closing growth plates & muscle development, so yes, early S/N can cause a taller, reedier look to a dog of any breed. there is also evidence that early spays can cause problems like incontinence in bitches. personally, i am against early S/N - i say wait until the dog has matured. those hormones play a role in growth and development, and i want my dogs to mature the way they were meant to, which has nothing to do with wanting a big burly dog....

dog management is, IMO, a much more important factor in a dogs behavior than an early S/N. i know of plenty of intact dogs of all breeds with 0 behavioral issues, and plenty of 'altered' dogs that are damn near nuts.


Misskiwi67 wrote:We had two 9 month old intact male boxer mixes who got loose last week, and I cared for the chihuahua they attacked for 5 hours before it went into respiratory arrest and died. Not only did they maul the dog and its owner, but they followed the pair into the house and continued to attack the elderly lady trying to get to her dog. Would those same PUPPIES have done this if they'd been neutered 3 months ago? Testosterone and the pack mentality is a powerful thing!



really, i think it's an unfair assumption for you to make that if these dogs had been neutered they wouldn't have acted on their prey drive/ dog aggression.

i think this:
Misskiwi67 wrote:They certainly wouldn't have done it if they'd been adequately contained.


is really the root of that unfortunate situation described above.

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Misskiwi67
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Postby Misskiwi67 » Thu Oct 02, 2008 11:29 am

If he has a coin purse of any size, I'd say neutered late. Dogs neutered before they gain their full stature don't have any extra skin back there.

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Postby The Teflon Don » Thu Oct 02, 2008 11:30 am

jlphilli wrote:lol

It was likely that he was neutered before puberty since he is tall and has a small....well, ya know. ;)


That's kinda what I figured... lol

I was trying to avoid directly asking the question regarding size lol

But yeah....I noticed he looked a bit..."immature" :oops:

On that note: He has a very large and very muscular head (see avatar)


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