OFFICIAL ear cropping/tail docking debate thread

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Re: OFFICIAL ear cropping/tail docking debate thread

Postby SnowKoi2010 » Sun Apr 17, 2011 11:53 am

Opps
Last edited by SnowKoi2010 on Sun Apr 17, 2011 11:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: OFFICIAL ear cropping/tail docking debate thread

Postby SnowKoi2010 » Sun Apr 17, 2011 11:56 am

SnowKoi2010 wrote:
Eclipse wrote:
SnowKoi2010 wrote:
Eclipse wrote:
SnowKoi2010 wrote:Back to the topic, Ear cropping does nothing for the dog, there for I wouldn't cry if they banned it all together. I like dogs with the natural look. When doing anything to a dog, it should be for medical reasons. And I don't mean at six weeks decide to crop the dogs ears because you think that they are going to get ear infections. You can avoid it, I have many times. I think that the Kennel clubs shouldn't have it as a part of breed standard because it isn't. If thats how the dog was intended to look, then they would have looked like such when they where born and as they grew.


Not liking it and a false argument against it for impeding a dog's ability to communicate are two very different things.

If it is in the breed standard it is part of it, no way around it.


No, Breed standard is what the dog looks like once its matured with out tampering. Adding Docking and Cropping to a dogs looks takes it away from the standard and adds to what people think the dog should look like.

As for communication, IMO It does. you might not think so but I have seen many pictures of dogs with cropped ears and if it wasn't for knowing what the face expression meant I couldn't tell how the dog was feeling. There are a lot of people out there that do not know Canine Body Language and could easily misinterpret a dog that looks as though it is smiling with its tongue sticking out and get bitten because the dog is really anxious.


Two definitions of breed standard
1. A breed standard (also called bench standard) in animal fancy and animal husbandry is a set of guidelines which is used to ensure that the animals produced by a breeder or breeding facility conform to the specifics of the breed.
2. Standard of excellence set up by a breed association for its breed.


First what does a dog smiling with its tongue sticking out have to do with the dog's ears. Seeing pictures of a dog and seeing a dog in front of you are two very different things.


Well you can keep you breed fancy. If you do crop jobs then good for you. I do not, and nothing you say will change my mind or agree to it other than for medical purposes.If you have to cosmetically alter a dog to make it meet what people think the dog should like then you are no better than a BYB who over breeds animals. And not I gave that as an example to a dog who's ears are cropped and the dogs fac- you know what what ever. It doesn't matter what I say. You think its right I think its wrong. End of story. I'm done arguing with you because this is no longer a debate. Have a good day.


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Re: OFFICIAL ear cropping/tail docking debate thread

Postby Eclipse » Sun Apr 17, 2011 12:06 pm

SnowKoi2010 wrote:
SnowKoi2010 wrote:
Eclipse wrote:
SnowKoi2010 wrote:
Eclipse wrote:
SnowKoi2010 wrote:Back to the topic, Ear cropping does nothing for the dog, there for I wouldn't cry if they banned it all together. I like dogs with the natural look. When doing anything to a dog, it should be for medical reasons. And I don't mean at six weeks decide to crop the dogs ears because you think that they are going to get ear infections. You can avoid it, I have many times. I think that the Kennel clubs shouldn't have it as a part of breed standard because it isn't. If thats how the dog was intended to look, then they would have looked like such when they where born and as they grew.


Not liking it and a false argument against it for impeding a dog's ability to communicate are two very different things.

If it is in the breed standard it is part of it, no way around it.


No, Breed standard is what the dog looks like once its matured with out tampering. Adding Docking and Cropping to a dogs looks takes it away from the standard and adds to what people think the dog should look like.

As for communication, IMO It does. you might not think so but I have seen many pictures of dogs with cropped ears and if it wasn't for knowing what the face expression meant I couldn't tell how the dog was feeling. There are a lot of people out there that do not know Canine Body Language and could easily misinterpret a dog that looks as though it is smiling with its tongue sticking out and get bitten because the dog is really anxious.


Two definitions of breed standard
1. A breed standard (also called bench standard) in animal fancy and animal husbandry is a set of guidelines which is used to ensure that the animals produced by a breeder or breeding facility conform to the specifics of the breed.
2. Standard of excellence set up by a breed association for its breed.


First what does a dog smiling with its tongue sticking out have to do with the dog's ears. Seeing pictures of a dog and seeing a dog in front of you are two very different things.


Well you can keep you breed fancy. If you do crop jobs then good for you. I do not, and nothing you say will change my mind or agree to it other than for medical purposes.If you have to cosmetically alter a dog to make it meet what people think the dog should like then you are no better than a BYB who over breeds animals. And not I gave that as an example to a dog who's ears are cropped and the dogs fac- you know what what ever. It doesn't matter what I say. You think its right I think its wrong. End of story. I'm done arguing with you because this is no longer a debate. Have a good day.



Why would it no longer be a debate I was simply providing facts. I never stated my opinion on the ear cropping issue only on the canine body language issue.

Claiming I am "no better than a BYB who over breeds animals" if I prefer to crop a dog's ears, is truly laughable. roflmao It doesn't even make sense to compare the two things.

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Re: OFFICIAL ear cropping/tail docking debate thread

Postby SnowKoi2010 » Sun Apr 17, 2011 12:15 pm

Maybe a BYB is a little harsh, they are terrible. But Cropping a dogs ears because you think its the natural look is rather dumb too. Because the AKC likes cropping and docking all my dogs will be UKC. I eventually look for this practice to be banned in the future sometime and I'm surprised the well known animal activist PETA who oh so is for animal rights isn't all over cropping and docking.

It isn't natural and shouldn't be part of breed standers. Simply because it makes the dog look like its going to attack you (More alert), has no medical benefit, Inhibits the ability to read most canine body language (IMO) and isn't the natural look of the dog. If you have a medical reason for doing it so be it. But any other reason is selfish, especially for Conformation.

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Re: OFFICIAL ear cropping/tail docking debate thread

Postby Eclipse » Sun Apr 17, 2011 12:39 pm

SnowKoi2010 wrote:Maybe a BYB is a little harsh, they are terrible. But Cropping a dogs ears because you think its the natural look is rather dumb too. Because the AKC likes cropping and docking all my dogs will be UKC. I eventually look for this practice to be banned in the future sometime and I'm surprised the well known animal activist PETA who oh so is for animal rights isn't all over cropping and docking.

It isn't natural and shouldn't be part of breed standers. Simply because it makes the dog look like its going to attack you (More alert), has no medical benefit, Inhibits the ability to read most canine body language (IMO) and isn't the natural look of the dog. If you have a medical reason for doing it so be it. But any other reason is selfish, especially for Conformation.


Obviously cropping a dog's ears isn't the "natural look" afterall if it were there would be no surgery involved. Neither registries standard requires cropped ears. I believe if ear cropping is banned the practice of "home crop jobs" will increase drastically and the only ones hurt by that are the dogs. There are too many people doing that already. It is ignorant to claim cropped dogs "look like they are going to attack you" (IMO).

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Re: OFFICIAL ear cropping/tail docking debate thread

Postby trexgorawrrrrr » Sun Apr 17, 2011 1:07 pm

You don't even know what you're talking about when it comes to eclipse's dogs... before you jump the gun & start calling her a BYB, maybe you should be quiet and learn about where they came from. :)

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Re: OFFICIAL ear cropping/tail docking debate thread

Postby SnowKoi2010 » Sun Apr 17, 2011 1:08 pm

Its not arrogant at all. From what I have been reading and from what I have seen, that was one of the reason why they did it. Tonight when I get home from work i'll look for those links again, but its out there.

Why do you like the cropped job if it doesn't look natural?

And you do? Also I wasn't calling him a BYB. There is a difference. I was comparing, you should read the post better; I even took back what I said about the BYB comment.

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Re: OFFICIAL ear cropping/tail docking debate thread

Postby trexgorawrrrrr » Sun Apr 17, 2011 1:12 pm

You are getting mixed up on two different people's post. Southern comfort asked about a friend's dog, which she then kept. Get your facts straight. Eclipse is a girl for one, and please go back to find out where her dogs came from and how they were cropped.

& you said she's basically the same as a byb.

Plus she never once stated her opinion on what she liked more, so why don't ya go back and reread on that one. There's a difference ;)
Last edited by trexgorawrrrrr on Sun Apr 17, 2011 1:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: OFFICIAL ear cropping/tail docking debate thread

Postby haircrazie016 » Sun Apr 17, 2011 1:13 pm

SnowKoi2010 wrote:Its not arrogant at all. From what I have been reading and from what I have seen, that was one of the reason why they did it. Tonight when I get home from work i'll look for those links again, but its out there.

Why do you like the cropped job if it doesn't look natural?

And you do? Also I wasn't calling him a BYB. There is a difference. I was comparing, you should read the post better; I even took back what I said about the BYB comment.



SHE said IGNORANT

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Re: OFFICIAL ear cropping/tail docking debate thread

Postby SnowKoi2010 » Sun Apr 17, 2011 1:20 pm

haircrazie016 wrote:
SnowKoi2010 wrote:Its not arrogant at all. From what I have been reading and from what I have seen, that was one of the reason why they did it. Tonight when I get home from work i'll look for those links again, but its out there.

Why do you like the cropped job if it doesn't look natural?

And you do? Also I wasn't calling him a BYB. There is a difference. I was comparing, you should read the post better; I even took back what I said about the BYB comment.



SHE said IGNORANT


OMG So jump on me for using the wrong word good lord people.

and omg You people knows Eclipse's gender! :O So sue me. I never met the person and Assumed. This is getting out of hand. I don't care how SHE had her dogs ears cropped. Its her Choice, but mine is NOT TO because I think its WRONG. I am not going to sit and call HER a BAD owner because SHE had her dogs ears cropped. I HAVE SAID MANY TIMES that I have seen good cropped jobs but I WILL NEVER DO IT TO MY DOG BECAUSE it INHIBITS the ability to READ animal BODY LANGUAGE rather you AGREE or NOT.

I TOOK BACK the BYB comment because it was rash AND unthoughtful. But get off my CASE already.

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Re: OFFICIAL ear cropping/tail docking debate thread

Postby trexgorawrrrrr » Sun Apr 17, 2011 1:59 pm

lol

& you're assuming more than just her gender, and for that you're wrong again.

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Re: OFFICIAL ear cropping/tail docking debate thread

Postby SnowKoi2010 » Sun Apr 17, 2011 2:12 pm

trexgorawrrrrr wrote:lol

& you're assuming more than just her gender, and for that you're wrong again.


Tell me, what all did I assume?

I recall HIM

and BYB (<-- Which I took Back)

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Re: OFFICIAL ear cropping/tail docking debate thread

Postby Celesteandthebullies » Sun Apr 17, 2011 3:47 pm

It's not a matter of opinion whether you can read a dog's body language with cropped ears or not. It's a fact, their ears do not stay in one place. They move around, you just have to pay attention to that, which is easy and the more you are around the dog the more it becomes obvious.

Oh and when I'm looking at a dogs body language, ears are definitely not top of the list, overall body posture generally is. In a stressed dog I look for displacement sniffing, stress panting, pacing, etc.

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Re: OFFICIAL ear cropping/tail docking debate thread

Postby haircrazie016 » Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:12 pm

Nervermind I'm not wasting my breath

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Re: OFFICIAL ear cropping/tail docking debate thread

Postby Eclipse » Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:16 pm

Celesteandthebullies wrote:It's not a matter of opinion whether you can read a dog's body language with cropped ears or not. It's a fact, their ears do not stay in one place. They move around, you just have to pay attention to that, which is easy and the more you are around the dog the more it becomes obvious.

Oh and when I'm looking at a dogs body language, ears are definitely not top of the list, overall body posture generally is. In a stressed dog I look for displacement sniffing, stress panting, pacing, etc.


:goodpost:
That is exactly my point. It is not a matter of opinion.

SnowKoi2010 wrote:Its not arrogant at all. From what I have been reading and from what I have seen, that was one of the reason why they did it. Tonight when I get home from work i'll look for those links again, but its out there.

Why do you like the cropped job if it doesn't look natural?

And you do? Also I wasn't calling him a BYB. There is a difference. I was comparing, you should read the post better; I even took back what I said about the BYB comment.


It is ignorant, if that is a reason people give for cropping that in and of itself is ignorant.

When in this thread did I state I preferred a cropped dog over a natural eared dog?

You really don't know what you are talking about when it comes to my dogs. I would prefer it if you would keep them out of this.


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