B.A.R.F. 101

[kellienurse]

I see now what the kelp is for...all the nutrients and minerals. Where in the heck am I going to find kelp?

[El_EmDubya]

... our ancestors who just went and killed a cow and dug their potatoes and ate them were far less healthy than we are.

This is up for debate as longevity calculations can include and exclude specific populations to prove various points. Some studies are forecasting today's youth will die at a younger age than their parents specifically due to the lack of nutrition in the Standard American Diet: http://www.nih.gov/news/pr/mar2005/nia-16.htm

Just a word to the wise, don't let Big Business be your doctor because MBAs are not incented to provide sound nutrition, they are incentivized to provide predictable quarterly profits.

LMW

[kellienurse]

I guess I need to buy a book. I read where some people just feed raw chickens, raw meaty bones, some people talking about grinding everything up, people adding veggies, people not adding veggies, adding Kelp. Seems like so many people do so many different things. I'm going to order the "Give your dog a bone" book tomorrow. I really hope this book tells me exactly what meat to feed, what to add to make sure my dog has all the minerals and amino acids and electrolytes and proteins they need. I want very specific directions, like a recipe. So is this the book I need to order to get that?

[FBODGRL]

I guess I need to buy a book. I read where some people just feed raw chickens, raw meaty bones, some people talking about grinding everything up, people adding veggies, people not adding veggies, adding Kelp. Seems like so many people do so many different things. I'm going to order the "Give your dog a bone" book tomorrow. I really hope this book tells me exactly what meat to feed, what to add to make sure my dog has all the minerals and amino acids and electrolytes and proteins they need. I want very specific directions, like a recipe. So is this the book I need to order to get that?

Did you read page 89? I believe that is where I mentioned feeding certain things. It is doubtful you are going to find what you are looking for as far as exactly what to feed or exact directions...as I mentioned on the previous page, every dog is different so there really can't be a certain feed this or that. It is all based on your own dog and what they tolerate, etc.

You need to decide if you want to feed prey model or BARF that is where the difference is in adding veggies and supplements, etc. Prey model does not involve veggies, supplements and the like. That is not to say that you can't add supplements, but you don't necessarily need to.

If you grind bones up you will not get the dental benefit of the bones or the mental stimulation of chewing, etc. There is no need to grind bones unless you are feeding a dog that has some type of dental issue and can not chew bone.

[Kahlie]

I guess I need to buy a book. I read where some people just feed raw chickens, raw meaty bones, some people talking about grinding everything up, people adding veggies, people not adding veggies, adding Kelp. Seems like so many people do so many different things. I'm going to order the "Give your dog a bone" book tomorrow. I really hope this book tells me exactly what meat to feed, what to add to make sure my dog has all the minerals and amino acids and electrolytes and proteins they need. I want very specific directions, like a recipe. So is this the book I need to order to get that?

Raw for animals, much like food for humans, is not a bland, regular, fit-for-all food.
In my experience, even kibble manufacturers recommend switching up between their lines/proteins, to make for a balanced/varied diet.

While recipe books exist for raw preparation, even still, one needs to do the legwork of research, learning, and adjusting accordingly.


Everyone does it differently as everyone adjusts to their lifestyle, to the needs of the animals, and to what's available for them (and many other variables, actually)...

I tend to do prey model, but occasionally add BARF in there; I don't do prey model as whole, intact, prey, however. In an apartment building, that just doesn't work well for me...

FBODGRL - put it perfectly, you really do not need to grind. Most who do, I find, do it out of being squeamish for "Seeing" the meat...

That said, if you don't even want to worry about preparing it, there ARE manufactors out there who now market prepared raw...but... I'm not a fan of it, personally. And, it can get expensive from what I understand

[FBODGRL]

yeah the premade is way expensive...at least for a pit bull size dog IMO. I fed it to Khan a few weeks leading up to switching to prey model. I fed it for 1 meal and then the last week both meals. I had planned all the while to do prey model, but I knew after those few weeks the premade financially was not an option

I can also say that things have been going well for Khan, but we are now back into trying to add organ and even though I am doing it slow we had cannon butt last night. So as I have said before (I think in this thread) it may not always be as "simple" as some people make it seem. For their particular dog it may be simple and their dog may be able to tolerate things, etc. FOr Khan it has been on again off again easy I have cleaned up more accidents on the carpet after getting home from work than I would like to admit and had more nights of getting up and letting him out with cannon butt than I would like too. However for me the benefits he is getting in his allergies is worth it. I know/hope that eventually it will get easy, but keep in mind we are almost 6 months into this.

[kellienurse]

ok Tug does not like organ meat...liver at least...I tried pig, chicken...I know he needs organ meat to get certain nutrients he doesnt' get from other meats. What else can I try?? gizzards??

[kellienurse]

also, my daughter n law said her vet told her feeding raw will give them worms???? any truth to this?? I haven't seen anything about it on the net.

[El_EmDubya]

Please print this and take it to your vet.
http://www.rawfitpet.com/pb/wp_fa7e8251/wp_fa7e8251.html

You can explain that there are currently no scientific studies FOR raw feeding as the Vet schools are supported by Pet Food manufacturers and Consumer Products Firms who use Pet Food as a dumping ground for "foods" that don't qualify for human consumption.

Raw fed pets are very healthy, IF you stick to the rules outlined in this sticky.

I'd suggest buying GreenTripe.com organ blends to get a little more organ meat into your dog's diet. It will also help lower your labor costs

[Misskiwi67]

Please print this and take it to your vet.
http://www.rawfitpet.com/pb/wp_fa7e8251/wp_fa7e8251.html

I'm pretty open-minded about raw, but if you brought that to me as "proof" that raw would not cause any disease, I would laugh. Maybe not in the room, but a customer survey of raw feeders, a consistently overzealous group of owners, is the absolute last bit of information I would consider the basis for any well-rounded decision.

Props to you for trying to help, but there are much better articles out there.

[El_EmDubya]

Could you post some then?

[Misskiwi67]

I'm looking... sadly, most veterinary resources are lists of reasons NOT to feed raw... and a customer survey just isn't going to hold water against it.

Raw diets expose dogs to Taenia, Sarcocystis and other tapeworms, toxoplasmosis, Neospora, Trichinella, Salmonella, E-coli, Campyolobacter, and more...

Weather or not these are clinically relevant when most veterinarians are still seeing heartworm, hookworm, whipworm, tapeworm, lyme, and flea infections on a regular basis... well, thats yet to be seen.

The fact of the matter is there are no good studies out there showing proof one way or the other. I'm hoping we'll see some good information in the next year.

I think asking your veterinarian to speak to a Nature's Variety representative would be a much more worthwhile way to go. Their foods are now AAFCO tested, as well as tested for bacterial/parasite contamination prior to sale. If your vet is vehemently apposed, then feeding Nature's Variety should at least put any reasonable concerns to rest.

[El_EmDubya]

I'm looking... sadly, most veterinary resources are lists of reasons NOT to feed raw... and a customer survey just isn't going to hold water against it.

You didn't understand my intention. The survey only justifies that there is NO GOOD INFORMATION regarding Raw feeding in the market place. The customer survey is the only thing that you and I can find that comes even close to documenting any risks associated with a raw feeding plan.

The truth of the matter is that the VAST majority of those who've switched to raw don't plan on going back to kibble. AND those in contact with a large Raw community KNOW the risks vets spew are based on anecdotal stories fed to them through blogs and studies supported by CPFs.

A sample size of one does not a study make, but a sample size above 1,000 SHOULD have generated some interest.

[Misskiwi67]

A sample size of one does not a study make, but a sample size above 1,000 SHOULD have generated some interest.

A sample of CURRENT raw feeders. This does not compare raw vs. current standard, which is kibble.

I've fed raw before... I don't anymore. I know there are others on the board who have done the same.

[El_EmDubya]

Here you go: https://spreadsheets.google.com/viewform?hl=en&pli=1&formkey=dE0wYU96cHk1LU84SzZZQUVqUWJTTkE6MQ#gid=0

At least someone is trying to do what YOU and I wish a major university would. (Although, who knows...maybe it is a part of a dissertation proposal. One can only hope.