Feeding Raw

[lilangel]

I've been feeding raw for about 12 years on and off. I thought I'd start a thread about how those of us who choose to feed raw go about making meals, how long it takes, how much it costs and the benefits and drawbacks of feeding our dogs this way.

While we have fed kibble at times, I have always seen a marked decrease in our dogs' well being both behaviorally and physiologically. I've gone from raw to kibble and back enough times to see a very distinct and disturbing pattern. The differences are most obvious in high drive working Malinois that tend to have much more active aggression. For us, the differences we see in feeding raw v. kibble are like night and day. Not only are the dogs less prone to outbursts of aggression, they are more energetic, more focused and less hectic. The more docile pits are more energetic and the older dogs are leaner with more muscle and much less joint discomfort where we know that serious joint issues already exist. All the dogs seem more "content" and really enjoy their meals.

Here are some pix of what our dogs eat once a day early in the morning during the Spring, Summer and Fall. In winter we go to one main meal at dawn and a smaller meal during the day, usually before bedtime.

The meat is just cut up chicken with bones. We will use chicken, pork, beef, venison, fish, rabbit etc. The veggies are blended and the root veggies and leafy greens are gently steamed before blending. The veggies I make twice a week as part of steaming veggies for making my wifey's "lunchbox" that she takes to classes and they take me about 20 minutes total.

The dogs each get a chicken piece that is appropriate to their weight. The Malinois will get whole quarters and the Pits generally get a thigh or drumstick. Everything else is the same for every dog. I lay out the bowls and scoop and poor for less than 5 minutes total. The only prep is veggies. Voila.

Ingredients:
Raw Chicken part with bone-in
soft boiled egg with shell
liver
(alternate kidneys, sweetbreads etc)
tripe (preferably green, but any tripe (Rhumba brand) is better than nothing)
heart
gizzard
veggie mash (kale, collards, peppers, carrots, celery, lil garlic, tomato, beet, fruits, squash etc.)
local organic yogurt
goat milk or kefir
oils: I measure with a 1 oz shot glass and I usually give them 1-2 oz total of a various blend of the oils below.
salmon oil
extra virgin olive oil
wheat germ oil
Flax oil
Hemp oil
kelp
bee pollen
glucosamine, chondroitin, msm supplement

That is pretty much what makes up a daily meal around here. The dogs go nuts over it. I will give each dog a chunk of meaty knuckle bone to work on once a week or once every two weeks.

[Ilovethepits]

Do you measure the veggie mash? How much does each dog get of that?

[lilangel]

I use a 1/4 cup measuring scoop and they get a lightly heaped scoop. Sometimes they get 2 scoops. I used to be really anal about measuring everything but over time I learned to relax and be more free about it as my recipes became more practiced and I saw the results that I wanted could be achieved whether I was measuring ounces or not.

Everyone, please post your own recipes and pics. I'm sure the whole prey model would be interesting to see although I guess I feed sort of a whole prey model.

Anyone feed whole animals with fur?

[ProudMommy77]

I don't do veggies...I just do prey model. However supplement wise, they get super fuel, ACV, Solid Gold Seameal and Flax, Salmon oil, and a joint supplement.

I find heads to be the best source of a good mental work out, think of a puzzle for dogs.

there's a Mal in there somewhere...

[jamielvsaustin]

*raises hand* I have questions:
lilangel-What are sweetbread and kefir? And what is the purpose/benefit of the bee pollen? Is that something that could be given to a dog that is not on a raw diet?
PM77-The pieces that the Mal and Paver have look big in comparrison to what lilangel is feeding. Is that because you're not giving all of the extras that he gives his dogs? Or is that not something they'll finish in one sitting?

[Mingoglia]

Wow, I must be a wussy. That just looks gross to me.

[lilangel]

AWWww... the ribcage? No way! Nasty!! Jen, that's f'in awesome and disgusting! The heads especially but yeah, I have to agree, they are the best chew things. Love seeing dogs eat what they are supposed to eat

lilangel-What are sweetbread and kefir? And what is the purpose/benefit of the bee pollen? Is that something that could be given to a dog that is not on a raw diet?

Sweetbreads are various odd organs but primarily the thymus glands. They can also be the tongue, cheek, balls, etc. Kinda considered delicacies in some parts. eww.

Kefir is cultured fermented goat milk. It has the consistency of like a liquidy goat milk yogurt shake . I think it tastes nasty but some people love it and the dogs love it. It has a very ginormous amount of probiotics and enzymes, much more so than yogurt. It is a little cheaper than a comparable amount of local organic cows milk yogurt around here so I usually get organic Kefir unless my wife wants yogurt.

Bee pollen is beneficial for the immune system and provides complete amino acids in one source.

All these things could be added to kibble. The sweetbreads and organs would best be served separately to avoid the squirts.

[Nichole]

I am loving this thread, thanks for posting it. I feed raw, but mostly a prepared meal via a local company that I find reasonably priced (vs store bought pre-made raw) that specializes in raw. I've been wanting to slowly venture into doing it more on my own. Baby steps, right?

I am particularly interested to see how people deal with feeding whole animal prey model. I have a source for young rabbits, pretty good prices too...but I'd get them whole. Skin and all. That makes me hesitate a little. Thoughts? I'm I being a wimp? I'm envisioning a furry mess everywhere.

[mtlu]

@ lilangel – thanks for that bit about kefir. I had been thinking about switching to kefir rather than yogurt+probiotics. Molly gets kibble but I supplement with things like local raw honey, kelp, fresh fruit/veggies, raw egg and her joint supplements.

[FransterDoo]

We feed twice a day. I have a smallish chest freezer and 1/2 to 3/4 of the human freezer. My wife works at a meat company so things vary a lot depending on what she can get us from inventory.

About every other month we make and prep a ground product that we use for breakfast:

ground meat and fat of some sort (typically beef or pork)
ground organ blend from Creston Valley Meat (heart, liver, kidney, lung, etc)
Apple Cider Vinegar
Lecithin
Yucca
veggies and fruit (what ever is seasonal and in our price range) This includes any bits that we didn't eat that go into the freezer for the dogs. We steam yams/sweet potatoes and some squashes. everything else is raw.
Garlic/ginger

Every morning, they get a scoop of that plus joint supplements, Co Q-10 and various other things individualized to the dog. Plus a "cookie"

Cookies are salmon oil, peanut butter, flax seed meal, coconut oil, alfalfa powder and some tapioca powder as a binder. I make little cookie sized rounds and pull them from the freezer as needed.

Dinner varies a lot and does depend on the dog since we have a 14-pounder and Fran's teeth are cruddy. We also feed more or less depending on training schedules (i.e. Levi gets very little food Sunday and Monday b/c he trains Monday afternoon and get s a lot of hot dogs)

typically in a month they eat:
chicken parts
heart
buffalo ribs
other goat/llama/sheep bones
fish heads
fish butcher scraps
pork
beef

[BrokenAquarian]

Anyone feed whole animals with fur?

I do

I feed whole guinea pigs, rabbits, mice, rats and chicks. I also feed grocery store chicken to cut down on the fortune it costs to ship in frozen feeders to California *Why the hell don't we have any large feeder operations here??*

I've found that through my raw experiments in the last 3.5 years

- ground raw sucks for clean teeth and sucks even more preparing large batches for 2 medium sized dogs. If you're going that route, get pre made and supplement with bones to chew - even if the ground has bone in it(mine did)

-The fur of the animal scrubs the dogs' teeth almost as well as bone, yet doesn't noticeably wear them down like chewing on a bone does.

I don't feed veggie mash to my guys because they eat the guts from the animal and that has fermenting/digesting greens in it already.

[starrlamia]

No veggies for my guys. Once a month my bf goes to the butchers and gets whats on sale, on top of my friend who works at a pork processing plant. I also buy stuff at the grocery store if it's on sale, usually get organs there.
We mix it it up and the dogs get a variety of meats but pork and poultry are their main staples. We just buy in bulk from the butchers, portion it out and throw it in the freezer, I do the same for organs. We generally feed twice a day but sometimes once a day if we get a large cut that is hard to size down. I dont even thaw the food, they get it frozen. We do at times feed kibble if we start running low, usually once every other day. If they get kibble they get kelp (brie does grendel wont eat it), coconut oil and bee pollen. They get fish oil and vit e regularily whether they are getting raw or kibble. Im looking into adding probiotics so I will have to look into the kefir.

Unfortunately not having a car limits the ability to get a huge variety of meats you dont normally find in main stream butchers and stores. But I plan on making a trip to the chinese grocery store to see what I can rustle up. I never feed pre-made raw unless i find it on sale, to pricey!

As for price, we pay less then .99 cents/lb.

In regards to the effect it has had. I dont notice any temperment changes but grendel's coat is amazing, he has environmental allergies and some sort of food allergy I have not been able to narrow down as it isnt a meat source (and it could possibly be nylon, still working this out). But all of his hair has grown back in after previous hair loss around his neck and chest. Both dogs also smell better, have softer coats and poop less stinkyness.

[ProudMommy77]

PM77-The pieces that the Mal and Paver have look big in comparrison to what lilangel is feeding. Is that because you're not giving all of the extras that he gives his dogs? Or is that not something they'll finish in one sitting?

When I can get my hand on carcasses, then that is what is fed till it's gone, which usually doesn't take long. So, I gorge them, and then fast. If I do rabbits, I buy according to weight, so if one dog is getting a pound a day, I buy x amount of one pound rabbits, and if one gets two pounds, etc...The heads that I feed, when I can get them, are nothing more than a puzzle toy for dogs, with a meat source stuck in there some where. . I do whole chickens, turkeys, ducks, whatever I can get.

AWWww... the ribcage? No way! Nasty!! Jen, that's f'in awesome and disgusting! The heads especially but yeah, I have to agree, they are the best chew things. Love seeing dogs eat what they are supposed to eat

that was a partial carcass I got from the one butcher I know, spine, ribs, and a assortment of goodies stuck on there. It's a great way to keep nosy neighbors from peeking over your privacy fence.

As far as price goes, I keep everything under a dollar a pound, and don't mind traveling to get it, if I do travel far, I buy in bulk, when I say in bulk, I mean three hundred pounds or more. But, as it stands right now, I only have to fourteen miles to the next town over for 57 cents a pound for a assortment of things. So, it's a hidden treasure for me. .


A lot of the feeding depends on how they are working, and if they are being conditioned for a sport. So, a lot of times I up the food, during the winter, when they aren't doing nearly as much, I cut back a little.

[lilangel]

Those of you that give a Co Q10 supplement... care to elaborate on that a bit?

What is Co Q10?

How much do you give?

How long have you been giving it and what benefits do you see from giving it?

To the whole animal feeders: I tried feeding rabbits for a while, but the dogs would not eat them. They just threw them around the yard. I even split the gut open and they still just played with them and got them all slobbery. I eventually had to chop them in half with a cleaver which as you can imagine made some god awful messes with the entrails and all. Then and old then did the dogs devour the little critters. Anyone have that problem?

Also for those that freeze large quantities of meat: how long is too long to keep something frozen? I feed fresh but I do have a freezer full of stuff that is like 5 years old eww. I just never got around to getting rid of the stuff or feeding it and I am procrastinating about digging a big hole to dump the stuff in. Lots of green tripe. That's gonna be a stinky hole.

[Absoulte]

Wow what a great idea for a thread! I am SUPER interested in going raw but a little nervous in that I want to be sure I am providing a good, well balanced diet for my boy. I am going to start by sticking with Taste of the Wild kibble and throwing in a chicken bone here and there.

Lilangel, if you don't mind, where did you learn all of this about feeding raw? Or is it stuff you have just learned over the years? I love the fact that you have been feeding for 12+ years - I prefer learning from someone who has been doing it that long and has been successful.

I am a total supporter of the idea that dogs are meant to eat this way - and I hope to eventually get to the point where I can stomach it. (The whole body parts - little scary). My boyfriend lives on a farm - a great source for chickens, cows, and pig parts. Even better - we can control what they are eating.