Feeding Raw

Talk about diets, exercise, and disease.

Re: Feeding Raw

Postby lilangel » Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:35 am

How I got started:
I, like most people who have fed raw for a while, started with the Ian Billinghurst books. http://www.barfworld.com/html/dr_billinghurst/meet.shtml

I started feeding raw because my dog got vaccinosis and started having really horrible skin infections and breakouts that seemed like they were being exacerbated by his kibble if not directly attributable to them. It was a horrible thing not knowing what your dog is sick from or why your dog is suffering and that a vet and my stupidly listening to her caused it. Vets in the city at that time insisted on 6 parvo shots, perhaps because they wanted to kill all the pits and rotts. Who knows. I changed to raw and found a new vet a couple of hours outside NYC, a country vet who suggested no more vaccines, a fast and then feeding my dog chickens. He was an old beardy mountain man and his office was in the country on a dirt road inside an old rickety board and batten building. Sounds creepy and far fetched but he was a great vet who practiced sensible effective medicine without all the unnecessary crap, had APBTs and appreciated the breed. He saved both of my dogs' lives.

I started doing some research and then dove into feeding raw. A lot of how I feed is trial and error. Some of it is gleaned advice from others who feed raw but I often find many raw feeders to be way too anal about things. I am no longer overly concerned with calcium phosphorous ratios or pancreatitis, kidney failure, perforations etc. After feeding raw for long enough, you begin to see your dogs differently, you become more observant and change things if necessary. It is actually quite fun to prepare meals and watch your dog enjoy them. It is telling to see how changing something, like removing salmon oil and not replacing those nutrients, can cause a change in your dogs within one to two weeks, or how much a dog enjoys a change in meat source. I appreciate my dogs more as I feel that preparing food for another builds a relationship. Scooping kibble is just putting fuel in the machine. I actually think it is fun to find new ways to feed these guys... and I'm a vegetarian. ;)

I'm going to take some pics of my next meal prep to show the steps.
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Re: Feeding Raw

Postby lilangel » Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:41 am

afrikaPB wrote:Don't mock, I am actually asking... My dogs eat horse poop and hoof trimmings. Aside from manure from a recently wormed horse, has anyone heard of negative side effects of eating it? I ask because it really firms up Nuggets poop, and seems like a natural way to get his greens, so to speak.


Nothing wrong with eating horse manure. It is quite nutritious and apparently delicious! My dogs eat it on the regular and I don't stop them. They actually eat all kinds of poop. Oh! and my dogs have never had any intestinal parasites and they do not get wormed aside from strategically administered heartworm meds which I started this year because we have had a case of heartworm in our area. I think there is some validity to dogs building immunity to intestinal parasites if they are not wormed.
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Re: Feeding Raw

Postby starrlamia » Wed Aug 03, 2011 1:12 pm

How I got started:

Before we had even gotten Grendel, we had a ferret who was diagnosed with insolinoma (tumors of the pancreas), he needed high quality protein foods to help him keep a normal blood sugar level so he would not have seizures. So I researched raw for ferrets, which is a huge pain in the ass, like cats they can take a long long time to switch over. I started by making him soup, unfortunately bandit passed away shortly after, however I kept my ferrets on soup over the years, we never made the full transition to raw.

When we got Grendel he was on kibble. However he developed demodex and allergies, I started researching ways to boost his immune system. I was also fairly sure he had some sort of food allergy, but not to meats, to something else in the kibbles. Considering we fed grain free kibbles it was super hard to narrow down. Grendel grew up getting RMBs and other various meats here and there. I already had a basic understanding of raw theory but I read threads here, joined yahoo groups and got Lew Olsen's book. Talked to my bf about it and we made the switch.

I agree Vin, some raw feeders are really anal. I dont measure food, I eyeball it, if they have loose stool they get more bone, hard stool less, I dont measure every single thing, as it all works out over time. TBH I love the way the dogs react to their raw meals vs kibble meals. They jump around and gobble it up, granted brie eats anything, grendel hates kibble and never finishes a kibble meal.
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Re: Feeding Raw

Postby AllisonPitbullLvr » Wed Aug 03, 2011 1:54 pm

Very interesting thread for someone like me who is not convinced yet one way or the other on raw feeding.

Is it odd that I am reading this while eating my lunch and am not bothered in the least?
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Re: Feeding Raw

Postby starrlamia » Wed Aug 03, 2011 2:52 pm

AllisonPibbleLvr wrote:Very interesting thread for someone like me who is not convinced yet one way or the other on raw feeding.

Is it odd that I am reading this while eating my lunch and am not bothered in the least?

did you look at the pig head picture? :P
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Re: Feeding Raw

Postby lilangel » Wed Aug 03, 2011 3:02 pm

Soft Boiled Eggs I do them 30 at a time and it takes about 5 minutes total, mostly waiting.
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Fresh Organic Blueberries from our local berry CSA
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Chicken Gizzards and Hearts
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Chicken Livers
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All of the above in a bowl so far.
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Veggies: Collards, Kale, Celery, Carrots, Patty Pan Squash, Orange Pepper, Habanero Pepper, Garlic, Ginger, Beet, Beans.
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How Much Veggies Per Bowl:
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This Week's Oils
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Amount of Oil Per Bowl:
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Alternate oil:
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Stinky Green Tripe amount. I keep 2 lbs in a stainless container with an airtight lid:
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Goat Milk & Kefir. I give 1 oz of Kefir and pour in as much goat milk as I feel like.
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10lbs Chicken Parts in a stainless container:
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Chicken with lid on. This is how I store in fridge.
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Finished Meal with a whole chicken quarter for an 80 lb Dutch Shepherd.
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Finished Meal with a chicken thigh for a 50 lb APBT
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Side by side comparison of amounts
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Simple Cleanup: One Pint Glass with soapy water and everything I used that isn't going back in fridge:
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Fridge Storage. Everything except the chicken container fits inside this stainless pan and it slides perfectly into the space where a vegetable crisper drawer would go in a fridge. The chicken container slides right above it on the lowest shelf:
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Enjoy!

Oh Yeah I didn't get pix of the supplements but you can see most of them in the finished meals.
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Re: Feeding Raw

Postby Absoulte » Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:34 pm

What are the benefits of BARF (I am assuming is the eggs/fruits/milks etc) vs. the raw vs. the prey?

Raw I am meaning like chicken legs, and individual parts.

Prey being whole parts (legs, heads, etc).

Or if you prefer one of the other - why?
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Re: Feeding Raw

Postby El_EmDubya » Wed Aug 03, 2011 5:25 pm

Personally I believe "raw" should be called "custom" as each dog, each gene pool, and each lifestyle benefits from specific incremental changes FROM "the plan". I've been recently following the "Paleo" movement (for humans) and they are finding that diets need to shift according to genes (race), lifestyle, and goals. You, and your dog, are as individual as a snowflake and your diet needs to reflect that individuality.

Intuition, flexibility, and the constant need to learn is very important if you plan to feed raw.

I began as a BARF feeder and blended, cooked, ground, and did everything the books said you should 8 years ago... now I'm firmly in the Prey Model and believe, for a "normal" lifestyle, this is the easiest way to long term health for your dog.

LMW
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Re: Feeding Raw

Postby FransterDoo » Wed Aug 03, 2011 5:33 pm

lilangel wrote:Soft Boiled Eggs I do them 30 at a time and it takes about 5 minutes total, mostly waiting.


why soft boiled over straight from the fridge?

Habanero Pepper,


any particular reason why?


I also love hitting up the restaurant supplies for dog food containment.
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Re: Feeding Raw

Postby AllisonPitbullLvr » Wed Aug 03, 2011 6:19 pm

Is anyone aware of any studies showing the pros/cons of RAW feeding?
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Re: Feeding Raw

Postby El_EmDubya » Wed Aug 03, 2011 6:50 pm

There is no benefit to researching "PRO" raw as Consumer Products Firm can NOT make money from you feeding raw to your dog. In fact they make LESS money if you do as kibble and canned foods are "waste systems" for non human quality meats and veggies. The grains in kibble are not the corn and wheat that humans eat, they are by-products of other products, largely cattle feed and HFCS. (Watch "King Corn" on hulu, if you want a partial glimpse into the corn industry.)

The more I understand about our food sources, the more I worry about our future. As I've removed grains from my diet, I've learned so much about how our diets are NOT healthy w/r/t meat sources, fatty acid balance, metallic cofactors, and probiotics. We've really only been consuming highly processed foods for the last 40 years and as our generation ages, we will likely see the results :crybaby:

If you speak with Ph.D students and professors at research institutions you'll understand how BIG industry funds most research and how many researchers' hands are tied. It is a shame the majority of research, for all topics, ISN'T a naive pursuit of truth and information :crybaby: Instead it is fuel for PROFITABLE innovation.

Call me a cynic, but I prefer to acknowledge the pollutive effects that MBAs have brought to the table.

LMW
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Re: Feeding Raw

Postby lilangel » Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:15 pm

El_EmDubya wrote:There is no benefit to researching "PRO" raw as Consumer Products Firm can NOT make money from you feeding raw to your dog. In fact they make LESS money if you do as kibble and canned foods are "waste systems" for non human quality meats and veggies. The grains in kibble are not the corn and wheat that humans eat, they are by-products of other products, largely cattle feed and HFCS. (Watch "King Corn" on hulu, if you want a partial glimpse into the corn industry.)

The more I understand about our food sources, the more I worry about our future. As I've removed grains from my diet, I've learned so much about how our diets are NOT healthy w/r/t meat sources, fatty acid balance, metallic cofactors, and probiotics. We've really only been consuming highly processed foods for the last 40 years and as our generation ages, we will likely see the results :crybaby:

If you speak with Ph.D students and professors at research institutions you'll understand how BIG industry funds most research and how many researchers' hands are tied. It is a shame the majority of research, for all topics, ISN'T a naive pursuit of truth and information :crybaby: Instead it is fuel for PROFITABLE innovation.

Call me a cynic, but I prefer to acknowledge the pollutive effects that MBAs have brought to the table.

LMW


Well said. :thumbsup:

Re: soft boiled eggs
I use soft boiled because my dogs always looked off after eating whole raw eggs. I later discovered that the albumen (white) can cause digestive upset in dogs and allergies in some dogs but if you cook the white then it is easily digestible. However, the yolk is more nutritious raw, so soft boiled was perfect. I bring water to a boil and then take the eggs off and dunk in cold water.


Re: Spicy peppers
I just use the meaty part and only a teeny weeny bit like a thumb nail sized chunk at a time as I noticed my dogs love spicy thai and mexican food. Peppers have anti bacterial qualities and are good for circulation as well. The first time I used one I was a bit nervous as the peppers were hot! but the dogs went to town and didn't seem to even notice so I will get a pepper every so often and add it until its gone.
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Re: Feeding Raw

Postby mtlu » Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:51 pm

Chili peppers are also a really good source of vitamin C – especially when they are greener.
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Re: Feeding Raw

Postby PITtsburgher » Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:01 pm

Dogs actually don't require vitamin C in their diet :)
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Re: Feeding Raw

Postby Adrianne » Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:28 pm

They make their own but in times of stress and illness they may need some help. It doesn't hurt at all though, in excess the most it will do is cause some gas and runs from what I understand.
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