Irritation in between toes, and under chin

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Irritation in between toes, and under chin

Postby bluenose323 » Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:24 pm

About 6 months ago I lost my job and could no longer afford the 60$ bag of evo, so I had to start feeding Dozer pedigree since that was all my mom would pay for.

4 months ago Dozer's paws started to get really irratated, and red in between his white paws. I took him to the vet immediately, and he gave him some special soap and anti-biotics. It went away.

Shortly after the pills were done, the redness and irritation started to show up again. I feared I hadnt done something right with the pills, so I took him back, this time they gave me a different soap, and the same pills. Again same story.

I talked to the guys at my local pet store, explained to them the situation, and they warned me the pedigree he was eating was probably the problem. They said the food contained too much grain and corn and was practically toxic. I immediately put some ends together and was suggested to switch to a raw dog food formula made by Primal. They said they had customers with similar issues who switched and now swear by it. Though it is expensive, he said if it works I can make my own raw food by looking up recipes online. It's been about a week now, and before this week I had him back on evo for a month, now it's a mixture of both primal raw chicken, and evo. The problem seems to fluctuate everyday. Some days it's less red and I get excited that it's getting better, some days (like today) the redness is so red it slightly bleeds.

His front paws, rear paws slightly less, and his chin area that seem to be affected by this.

I have 2 questions.

What is it that is causing this redness?

What raw food diet recipes do you, or someone u know, suggest for my 90 pound pit bull.

I understand that something like this takes time to clear through his system, but it's been roughly a month and a half since he's ate any pedigree.

Someone please help me. My dog is sick, he limps sometimes, I don't want him to take any more anti biotics, and Ive literally devoted my days to waging him every other day and preparing his foods, regular walks, ect.
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Re: Irritation in between toes, and under chin

Postby Curly_07 » Thu Feb 16, 2012 7:03 pm

It def sounds like allergies to me. My girl is allergic to grains, chicken, and Febreeze. She gets dry skin if potatoes are in the food. If I give her chicken (cooked or raw) and/or corn, she will get really red on the paws, crack and bleed, even hair loss around the neck and such. It took me 2 years to figure out corn was an issue (I was dumb, really slow at this whole thing), and it took me almost 3 years to figure out chicken was an issue. The febreeze...you don't want to know how much money I wasted taking her to the vet for tests and such constantly, when the problem was me spraying her bedding with it all the time! She also occasionally will get dry/itchy on beef.

I feed her fish based foods only, give extra oils (Salmon and coconut) daily, and do NOT allow her to have any treats that have chicken or corn in them. I do not let others give her treats. I carry a zip lock baggy of salmon dried treats for people that really want to treat her. She does not get raw hides, milk bones, etc...Only items I know what they are 100%.

Oh, and for the adjustment times...it usually takes at a minimum of 4 weeks to see any change/reaction to what you are feeding. Sometimes it takes mine closer to 2 months to see any difference. If you can go RAW, it's really the best. Unfortunatley, I don't have this as an option right now. Figuring out allergies is all about trial and error. It takes time to get it right.
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Re: Irritation in between toes, and under chin

Postby AllisonPitbullLvr » Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:36 pm

Allergies are almost always a combination of food + environment. They are almost always a chonic recurring problem. They often need antibiotics/antifungal medications when they develop secondary infections.

Top five food allergies are beef, chicken, soy, dairy, wheat.

So to start I would limit those ingredients.

You may need a trip back to your vet to clear up the secondary issues.

Skin issues suck :( I'm sorry.
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Re: Irritation in between toes, and under chin

Postby pblove » Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:04 pm

the red is usually the tip off that it is a yeast issue, not allergies
go and read about yeast on here(and you can go to the home page, look fore the 12 most common ailments and read about allergies too)

http://www.nzymes.com/store/pc/symptomC ... on_id=1951
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Re: Irritation in between toes, and under chin

Postby bluenose323 » Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:17 am

Pblove, I just read the article but it doesn't seem like this is what I'm dealing with, as it says that the yeast infection shows up white against pink skin.

Alison & Curly; I think we may be onto something here... One last question, is this a health issue if prolonged any further? Its my priority to take care of the problem as soon as possible to comfort him, but if i take a little longer I can maybe pinpoint what exactly he is allergic to, to avoid any problems in the future.


If it isn't, I would begin some kind of process of elimination. It seems as though salmon would be a good choice to switch to, since it isn't a popular alergin, but I can't rule out chicken just yet. I will give this raw chicken and evo diet a couple more weeks before I switch it up on him again. Please let me know your thoughts.

You guys have all been a great help, and I appreciate the quick responses. I feel more confident in dealing with the issue then I have in the last month or two.

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Re: Irritation in between toes, and under chin

Postby Curly_07 » Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:33 am

Well, if you let it go too long without doing something, it could cause a more serious allergic reaction. Like with Febreeze and chicken for Curly, she started out flakey, then went to itchy, then hair loss and throwing up, I'm not sure I want to know what would have happened if I didn't start doing a process of elimination. The best way I found to go about things was to remove one thing for 2-4 weeks from the diet and see if the slightest change happened. When you do this trial, you have to cut out all treats/chews that aren't on the trial diet. So, let's say you are wanting to try chicken...don't feed anything with beef, pork, etc. I would also immediately cut out anything with corn and wheat in the ingredients. These 2 things are at the top of the list for issues. You have really read back labels of treats and foods.

Also, stay away from anything from China if you haven't already heard... the FDA has put out a thing about this recently. Deadly. There is a post about it on here somewhere....

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Re: Irritation in between toes, and under chin

Postby mtlu » Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:47 am

Do a search for elimination diet. It is not just choosing to limit to one protein source/no grains and no other treats. You want to start with what is called a "novel" protein, a protein source that your dog has never had before - often this means looking for a quality, single protein source food that contains just venison or just duck or just fish as the protein source. When choosing this, you also want to make note of the other pre-dominant, non-meat component such rice, potato, sweet potato or whatever as sometimes potato and sweet potato can cause problems.

You want to keep your dog on this food for at least a month (I think 6 weeks is usually the recommendation) and then you introduce other ingredients, one at a time. When training, use the same kibble for food rewards and not any other treats. Make sure no house guests slip your dog any table scraps either :)

I kept a food journal for Molly so I could keep track of ingredients added and time frame and read labels all the time - a "chicken formula" kibble can still contain other meats like beef or lamb if you take the time to carefully read through the entire ingredient list.
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Re: Irritation in between toes, and under chin

Postby AllisonPitbullLvr » Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:56 am

:goodpost:

The new guidelines for elimination diet is 12'weeks though rather than six.

Don't forget to consider EVERYTHING that passes her lips (ie. Flavored medications, rawhide, chewies, etc).

The concern with leaving skin issues unchecked is that you will develop severe secondary issues which can lead to alopecia, elephantized skin, and even serious immune issues such as ITP.
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Re: Irritation in between toes, and under chin

Postby bluenose323 » Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:59 pm

Thanks for the help and quick responses, once again.

I've taken note of everyone's input and will be formulating my process of elimination diet as soon as possible, but something happens today that I don't recall in the past. He pooped a couple drops of blood, away from the first pile of dook he had planted just a couple minutes prior. This was late last night. In the mornings I usually feed him and take him to walk, but this morning he refused to eat. I took the leash put and he was just as exited as usuall. He did poop once on the walk but it wasn't a firm stool, a lot more runny. When we got back home, I put the food out after he get a drink of water and he hesitated. I literally had to stand over him and force him to eat it, he did. I'm getting worried guys, it wasn't much blood, but he isn't acting right. I'm starting to think he might be allergic to the chicken?

He's currently eating a now grain no corn Evo diet, primal raw chicken, and a couple pumps of fish oil all stirred up.

Has it passed the stage of it just being an allergic reaction? Should I be worried and get him to the vet again? I won't be able to go till Monday or Tuesday... This sucks.
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Re: Irritation in between toes, and under chin

Postby Curly_07 » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:08 pm

bluenose323 wrote:Thanks for the help and quick responses, once again.

I've taken note of everyone's input and will be formulating my process of elimination diet as soon as possible, but something happens today that I don't recall in the past. He pooped a couple drops of blood, away from the first pile of dook he had planted just a couple minutes prior. This was late last night. In the mornings I usually feed him and take him to walk, but this morning he refused to eat. I took the leash put and he was just as exited as usuall. He did poop once on the walk but it wasn't a firm stool, a lot more runny. When we got back home, I put the food out after he get a drink of water and he hesitated. I literally had to stand over him and force him to eat it, he did. I'm getting worried guys, it wasn't much blood, but he isn't acting right. I'm starting to think he might be allergic to the chicken?

He's currently eating a now grain no corn Evo diet, primal raw chicken, and a couple pumps of fish oil all stirred up.

Has it passed the stage of it just being an allergic reaction? Should I be worried and get him to the vet again? I won't be able to go till Monday or Tuesday... This sucks.


You need to get a stool sample done ASAP. The blood could be non-related to allergy issues. There could be some kind of blockage going on from anything else he ingested, or it could be a parisite.

Is Taste of the Wild something you can afford? The Pacific Stream line (Salmon) is great. It's what helped me start my eliminations. It's cheaper than Evo (I used to feed Evo), atleast where I am anyways.
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Re: Irritation in between toes, and under chin

Postby AllisonPitbullLvr » Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:01 pm

Again, good post. It's not as common for dogs to have GI symptoms with an allergy.

A vet visit and stool sample is in order if there is blood in the stool.
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Re: Irritation in between toes, and under chin

Postby bluenose323 » Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:24 pm

i took him to the vet today. a different one. very nice Russian lady in Burbank not too far from my house, and she suggests the following game plan.


Laboratory

-Special Diet Food Allergy Panel Laboratory Test - 11 Special Ingredients Found In Premium & Holistic Diets
-Comprehensive "Plus" Allergy Panel Laboratory Test - Regional, Traditional Diet Food, Insect, Indoor, Staph & Malassezia Panels (110 Allergens)
-Ear/Skin cytology Laboratory Test
-Fecal Ova, Parasites & Giardia Laboratory Test

Medications

-Cephalexin 500mg Capsules
-Ketoconazole 200mg Tablets
-Vetericyn VF 4oz Spray - Wound Care
-Tramadol 50mg Tablets

i know one of the 3 pills are anti-biotics, and another for pain (he's limping now, it's gotten worse), not sure what the other one is for.

The fecal test is a given, to check for parasites and such, since he's been pooping blood.

The 2 tests, one for dietary, one for environmental allergens, are a total of $500. one of them is $450, the other is $50, i don't remember which one is which since the printed estimate doesn't have prices listed.

the total for everything is going to be $750. I told her i don't have the money and i would need to think about it, she said that would be fine and he seems to be okay, and if i can't do it all at once we can get things done one by one.

She explained how doctors tend to treat this issue with anti-biotics, but the problem is inevitably going to come back if you don't find out exactly what he's allergic too... The 2 tests would tell us this, but it costing $500 is a problem.

it's a doo-doo situation, i wish i $hat money... but i don't.

My thoughts right now: Get the fecal test done, buy the wound spay, the anti-biotics, and put him on Taste of The Wild like Curly suggested. Possibly the $50 allergen test whichever one it happens to be (most probably environmental??), and treat his toes with this soap she said she would give me that he's supposed to soak his paws in for a couple minutes a day, and see what happens... If he get's better, great. I'll get the $450 lab test done when i have the money. if not, the test would have to come much sooner... i literally couldn't think while i was in there. i'm so glad i walked out with nothing and have time to come up with my game plan with your help....

You guys have been amazing so far, and i hope this thread can help someone one day, but right now i need your opinions on the matter. How do you feel about my thoughts? Right now this is the only thing that is making sense to me given the financial situation i'm in, but if you disagree do let me know.

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Re: Irritation in between toes, and under chin

Postby Curly_07 » Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:38 pm

I would start with the feral and skin scrape test. This will rule out parasites, manges, etc. Cephalexin is an antibiotic. It's worked great for certain skin issues both of mine have had. The soap and spray sound like a good idea too. I would start doing the elimination diet immediately. While you do that for about 4-8 weeks with the antibiotics. After that, if things still have not change for the better, I'd work on the other 2 tests. I understand the expenses...believe me. It's hard sometimes. Just do the necessities now, and you can save up for the 2 allergy tests. I never did the food allergy tests. I just figured it out by elimination.

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Re: Irritation in between toes, and under chin

Postby mtlu » Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:53 pm

I agree with the fecal and a skin scrape - I think it's possible to culture for yeast infection - if it's positive for yeast, I would go back to pblove's post and read up on the link she provided.

For the elimination diet, make sure that whatever formula you have chosen contains a protein your dog has not had before. Also, I would do 12 weeks according to AllisonPibbleLvr's post).

Is his limping due to a recent injury? I would spend money to look at that first before spending money on the allergy testing. Tramadol is a fairly strong pain reliever and also a little strange to me that she did not first prescribe an NSAID. We've had a couple orthopedic issues with Molly but even with the first event, an NSAID was prescribed to see if the anti-inflammatory properties and strict rest would heal what might have been muscle injury (turned out to be ligament injuries).
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Re: Irritation in between toes, and under chin

Postby bluenose323 » Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:12 am

mtlu wrote:Is his limping due to a recent injury? I would spend money to look at that first before spending money on the allergy testing. Tramadol is a fairly strong pain reliever and also a little strange to me that she did not first prescribe an NSAID. We've had a couple orthopedic issues with Molly but even with the first event, an NSAID was prescribed to see if the anti-inflammatory properties and strict rest would heal what might have been muscle injury (turned out to be ligament injuries).


He's limping because the infection between his toes has gotten worse and worse... it's as it he's scraping against paper cuts every time he takes a step, with all four paws now instead of just the front two, so his walk is almost a wobble. i was terrified that something was internally wrong with him, but it's just his toes... he's in pain, but i don't think i'd put him on the Tremadol... He's a tough boy i think he can deal with it a bit longer and i don't want him taking too many pills. as far as the NSAID, we're ruling out any kind of muscle injury, so i don't think they would be necessary, right?
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