Thinkin' bout switchin' from Evo to Orijen

Talk about diets, exercise, and disease.

Re: Thinkin' bout switchin' from Evo to Orijen

Postby starrlamia » Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:58 am

I dont think Allison was trying to scare anybody she was posting her opinion the exact same way as anyone else has. Allison has also stated in the past that one of the reasons she doesnt like Orijen is because she has seen dogs with elevated liver (? or kidney i cant remember) enzymes. Im not really sure why you are picking on her specifically. And yeah, ive seen her recommend Science Diet, but the prescription formulas, which are one of the only foods that have been thoroughly tested to work for different medical conditions. not sure why your hair is ruffled over this. I also recommend Acana over Orijen for a normal, non-sporting dog. I want to see some more trials to see how these very high protein dog foods affect dog's systems, that high of a protein contect, especially without water is not normal. And this is coming from someone who was a huge Orijen advocate in the past.
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Re: Thinkin' bout switchin' from Evo to Orijen

Postby AllisonPitbullLvr » Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:32 am

:goodpost:
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Re: Thinkin' bout switchin' from Evo to Orijen

Postby my boy boris » Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:52 pm

sorry that there is drama goin' on between some of the members but i think the important thing to remember is that we are all on the same team and all here for the love of the dogs :)
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Re: Thinkin' bout switchin' from Evo to Orijen

Postby barefootxen » Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:07 pm

I fed Regional Red last month and Xen really liked it. She ate enthusiastically, but less and didn't lose or gain a significant amount of weight. I switched to TOTW this month, but I plan to switch back after this bag is finished. A 15 lb bag of RR was $60, incl tax, but Xen's also an only child so I'm fine with it.
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Re: Thinkin' bout switchin' from Evo to Orijen

Postby Misskiwi67 » Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:21 pm

my boy boris wrote:oh wow, i hope no one is a science diet "fan", it's one thing if that is all that is available but to actually choose it...


Prescription diets, YES! The OTC stuff, absolutely not.

Until you have seen the miracles of prescription food, don't bash it. It can be equally as miraculous as a raw food diet.

Say the senior dog in end stage liver disease who's blood ammonia is so high he is confused all the time. Switch to a liver diet at a whopping 14% protein level, and this dog suddenly has quality of life again.

Watching dogs who's hips look like something out of a science fiction movie be able to walk again thanks to the high levels of fatty acids in j/d.

I wouldn't recommend SD to anyone who has a normal dog, but prescription diets do have their place, and the OP just happens to feed one of the ingenius ones.
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Re: Thinkin' bout switchin' from Evo to Orijen

Postby Misskiwi67 » Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:26 pm

my boy boris wrote:it is funny to me how skeptical we are with anything that seems under priced or "too cheap", i do the same thing when i go to eat somewhere and the prices are so low :) curious, is the high protein in EVO the only reason you're not a fan of it? thanks


Actually, yes. Studies in working dogs have shown that protein over 35% DECREASES performance levels. It takes work for the body to convert protein to calories, and dogs are not nearly as carnivorous as the purists would like you to believe.

I've seen more dogs do poorly on EVO than have done well, so my clinical experience is also negative.
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Re: Thinkin' bout switchin' from Evo to Orijen

Postby FransterDoo » Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:29 pm

Misskiwi67 wrote:
my boy boris wrote:it is funny to me how skeptical we are with anything that seems under priced or "too cheap", i do the same thing when i go to eat somewhere and the prices are so low :) curious, is the high protein in EVO the only reason you're not a fan of it? thanks


Actually, yes. Studies in working dogs have shown that protein over 35% DECREASES performance levels. It takes work for the body to convert protein to calories, and dogs are not nearly as carnivorous as the purists would like you to believe.

I've seen more dogs do poorly on EVO than have done well, so my clinical experience is also negative.


That's why I also don't recommend stuff like EVO. Dogs who work or compete actually need higher fat levels to turn into energy. At a certain point, protein's actually a detriment to the competition or working dog.
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Re: Thinkin' bout switchin' from Evo to Orijen

Postby Odnarb » Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:53 pm

Adrianne wrote:
my boy boris wrote:
HappyPuppy wrote:
my boy boris wrote:well TOTW is a great price but i wouldn't trust any food put out by Diamond foods.


Why? Because of what happened a few years ago? I'd like to try Orijen or Acan sometime but never have....



yeah, any company that has directly caused the number of pet deaths that diamond has doesn't deserve a 2nd chance in my opinion

In all honesty I bet they now have stricter rules than companies that have never had an incident.



This is one of the reasons I'm still willing to feed Diamond products.

After the e coli incident with Jack in the Box, where do you think the most thoroughly cooked burgers could be found? LMAO

Diamond is probably really paranoid about having another incident. A repeat would kill them.

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Re: Thinkin' bout switchin' from Evo to Orijen

Postby my boy boris » Tue Mar 20, 2012 7:08 pm

Misskiwi67 wrote:
my boy boris wrote:oh wow, i hope no one is a science diet "fan", it's one thing if that is all that is available but to actually choose it...


Prescription diets, YES! The OTC stuff, absolutely not.

Until you have seen the miracles of prescription food, don't bash it. It can be equally as miraculous as a raw food diet.

Say the senior dog in end stage liver disease who's blood ammonia is so high he is confused all the time. Switch to a liver diet at a whopping 14% protein level, and this dog suddenly has quality of life again.

Watching dogs who's hips look like something out of a science fiction movie be able to walk again thanks to the high levels of fatty acids in j/d.

I wouldn't recommend SD to anyone who has a normal dog, but prescription diets do have their place, and the OP just happens to feed one of the ingenius ones.


the ingredients in sd's prescription diets are terrible. i can't believe as a vet you would recommend them as opposed to a healthier alternate diet for whatever ailment the dog is affected by.
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Re: Thinkin' bout switchin' from Evo to Orijen

Postby Misskiwi67 » Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:33 pm

my boy boris wrote:the ingredients in sd's prescription diets are terrible. i can't believe as a vet you would recommend them as opposed to a healthier alternate diet for whatever ailment the dog is affected by.


For health conditions, the ONLY other alternatives are home-cooked diets formulated by a nutritionist. These diets aren't for healthy pets, they are pets with very real, very specific health needs.

There is no other diet or supplement combination, no matter what you do that can equal the amount of fatty acids found in j/d and still maintain a balanced diet. No other companies have even attempted to try to make a competitive product. You find the same thing with Royal Canin LF, the diet is so hard to make, let alone make it edible, none of the other companies have a comparable product, and its extremely difficult to even approach this with a home cooked diet.

It is also difficult to match the protein/phosphorus etc. ratios for renal disease with a home cooked diet. It can be done, but ingredient drift (human error) can make all that work worthless.

For most of the other diets, not everyone is capable of cooking for their pet, or willing to do so.

Look up the new diet, y/d for cats. Its a diet that is so low in Iodine, it can make hyperthyroid cats normal again. You will want to vomit when you see the ingredients. I do not recommend it unless there are no other alternatives. This diet, no matter how awful you want to make it sound, will save lives.
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Re: Thinkin' bout switchin' from Evo to Orijen

Postby my boy boris » Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:44 pm

Why not feed a healthy diet to the cat and keep her on hyperthyroid medication? i have a hard time believing that for most conditions sd prescriptive's "treat" an at home recipe wouldn't be better. it's like a person with a serious illness/disease only being able to get their meds/treatment by eating a big mac and fries for every meal
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Re: Thinkin' bout switchin' from Evo to Orijen

Postby my boy boris » Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:52 pm

sorry not trying to be argumentative, just bothers me that a company would make these "specialized" foods and use bottom of the barrel ingredients.
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Re: Thinkin' bout switchin' from Evo to Orijen

Postby Murfins » Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:18 pm

I dispise vet foods and can't stand the thought of feeding them to my animals ... ever, UNTIL I had a cat with constant urinary tract infections and spent months treating her with antiobiotics and supplements only to watch her pee blood and cry and clearly she was hurting A LOT and then to do x-rays and discover that she had bladder stones ... I gave in and put her on Royal Canin s/o for an agreed 6 week period and sure enough 6 weeks and the stones are GONE. If I had given in and provided her with this food 6-9 months ago she wouldn't have had to suffer for that amount of time while we medicated her and tried everything else. Now we will attempt to put her onto a better quality food but if the stones come back or even the FLUTDs, I will keep her on what works.

I HATE vet foods but for certain conditions I think they are a god send. It kills me to say that because I pride myself on feeding top quality foods and going above and beyond whenever I can but I cannot deny what this crappy quality food did for my cat ... the ingredients SUCK but the formula works.

Another point I want to make, there is NO food that is amazing for every animal - not even raw. You have to be willing to give what works best for your individual animal and what you have available and can afford and there will ALWAYS be people who have something to say about what that is but at the end of the day, it's the animal that matters, imo.
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Re: Thinkin' bout switchin' from Evo to Orijen

Postby Misskiwi67 » Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:23 am

my boy boris wrote:Why not feed a healthy diet to the cat and keep her on hyperthyroid medication? i have a hard time believing that for most conditions sd prescriptive's "treat" an at home recipe wouldn't be better. it's like a person with a serious illness/disease only being able to get their meds/treatment by eating a big mac and fries for every meal


Have you ever owned a cat that was difficult to medicate? Do you really think it would be better to chase down and pill the cat twice a day and ruin their quality of life and and destroy their relationship with their owner? Without medication, hyperthyroidism leads to weight loss, behavior change, high blood pressure, heart disease and death.

Some cats take pills well, others do not. The transdermal medications are not effective for every cat. Surgery and radiation are not options for every owner. There are a LOT of options out there, and as of yet I've not had to resort to y/d, but someday I'm sure I will prescribe it because it will be what is best for THAT cat, not every cat, but for some cat, somewhere, someday. I am sure you would rather send your pet to a radiation center for a week than feed this diet, so would I, but not everyone has 4 grand to do it.

This particular prescription diet has essentially ZERO iodine in it. You probably won't be able to make an at-home diet that doesn't contain exactly the same crappy, vegetarian, ingredients.

I'm not saying these diets are ideal in all ways, but they meet some very specific needs, and until you know the WHOLE story, you shouldn't judge so harshly.
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Re: Thinkin' bout switchin' from Evo to Orijen

Postby Murfins » Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:32 pm

:goodpost:
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