does your dog ever lose its balance for no reason?

Talk about diets, exercise, and disease.

Re: does your dog ever lose its balance for no reason?

Postby HappyPuppy » Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:35 pm

nic wrote:What about 'exercise induced collapse' you can google it and find vids.
Hope you get an answer :)


Happened again today. --- now I wonder if it IS EXERCISE INDUCED COLLAPSE (EIC)! I took temp and as best as I could read the stupid mercury thermometer, it was about 103.5.

^^^ @ Nic -- I was going to send a PM but thought I'd say it publicly -- I think I was hasty in my previous discounting of this theory - I apologize -- I have kept it in the back of my mind, tho ...

When it happened again today around noon and 74 degrees, I looked up EIC again and damned if the 2nd video in this lady's series on her border collie didn't look identical to Ruby (minus the total collapse at the end) - still watching the other vids but wanted to post this..... I'm waiting for confirmation from my vet to create an 'open appointment' on a warm-ish day to walk in, throw the ball and monitor what happens.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_5u-Bea ... creen&NR=1
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Re: does your dog ever lose its balance for no reason?

Postby HappyPuppy » Mon Mar 19, 2012 10:45 am

OK, so maybe not EIC --- this isn't much of an update since I haven't been in yet to our hands-on vet, but while researching Exercise Induced Collapse, I emailed a DVM in Saskatchewan, BC who specializes in this, and I thought I'd share her reply that offers several things to consider. (I've mailed this in to my vet to add to the 'data' we're collecting on Ruby - we are going in soon on a nice WARM day to try to trigger another episode).
--------------
Thanks for the new link to the videos -this time I was able to watch Ruby's episodes.

This is definitely not EIC. I think it is most likely that these episodes represent partial focal seizures. It is important, however, to have veterinary evaluation to rule out things like low blood sugar, electrolyte or calcium abnormalities and heart disease with an intermittent heart rhythm problem (causing the heart to beat much too fast or much too slow periodically making Ruby dizzy). Also transient ischemic attacks (mini strokes) have been reported to cause similar symptoms in dogs so evaluation for predisposing causes (high blood pressure, kidney disease, heart disease, hypothyroidism)would be worthwhile.

If all testing is normal it is also important that a veterinarian perform a complete nervous system exam to make sure that there is no evidence of brain disease in between the episodes. Also they should look in the ears to make sure they are ok. If everything is normal then I think it is most likely epilepsy.
In that case I would probably try treating with oral anti-seizure medications (like phenobarbital) to see if this decreases the frequency of the episodes.

We have evaluated quite a few dogs with partial focal seizures looking a lot like Ruby. Some dogs progress to have regular generalized seizures over time but others do not.

I hope this helps. Let me know if you figure this out or if Ruby starts having more specific localizing signs - I will keep a copy of the videos and it would be nice to know what she does actually have.
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Re: does your dog ever lose its balance for no reason?

Postby Leslie H » Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:45 pm

It seems like that vet sounds very confident in the conclusions she's drawn. What do you think of this lastest information? It sounds like you've got some directions for testing. The tests sound potentially pricey, but it would be nice if it was something treatable.
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Re: does your dog ever lose its balance for no reason?

Postby HappyPuppy » Mon Mar 19, 2012 8:04 pm

My current vet is very conscious of not blowing money unnecessarily. I've said I will spend money, so that's not he issue, but she doesn't want to test for stuff that is obviously off base. Can't argue there. I just mailed this specialist's info to my vet today as 'additional data'.... It definitely offers some directions to look in - not trying to 2nd guess my vet who is hands-on, but I also put value in a specialist's information.... I haven't done any reading yet on the new suggestions - still freaked out over the other things I looked up...LOL but I will..... Vet did OK a spontaneous appt sometime soon to run and watch, so that is the next step esp after vet has read this new material. DH ran her balls-out the other day when I was gone and nothing happened...... In a way, I'm glad it is (so far) not a 100% repeatable thing altho that doesn't mean it's not a condition that will worsen, either.
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Re: does your dog ever lose its balance for no reason?

Postby HappyPuppy » Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:31 pm

OK - it's a nice warm day and we're going in to try to replicate this at the vet.... Wish us luck!
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Re: does your dog ever lose its balance for no reason?

Postby HappyPuppy » Tue Apr 03, 2012 6:35 pm

Ugh - everything was FINE at the vet today .... Will try again in a week or so. No immediate heart murmur. Glucose test was normal. Temp after exercising was 103.7 - not bad. Might have been 'too' warm today in that Ruby got hot and stopped for water. Maybe on a slightly cooler day, she might run longer. Vet suggested that I not try to take it easy or Ruby with our revised fetch sessions but to run her as normal and try to get more of a pattern for these episodes. Intermittent things are harder to trace... She did mention the possibility of early signs of - Addisons or something-myleopathy or adrenal something ... I'm going to try to look those up next. Other things would be constant or not intermittent like a brain lesion, etc. She didn't think phenobarb... is right for Ruby at this time. Vet is conscious of not blowing our money too early on frivolous and expensive tests like the $1K MRI - I told her I'm willing to spend some money but very much appreciate the slower approach via ruling out the easy things first!
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Re: does your dog ever lose its balance for no reason?

Postby Leslie H » Tue Apr 03, 2012 7:15 pm

She sounds like a great vet to work with. I'm still hoping for something that's over forever.
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Re: does your dog ever lose its balance for no reason?

Postby Red » Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:46 pm

Jenna, keep in mind that not having a diagnosis from your regular after about a month and a half this has started is a concern. I appreciate vets who try not to waste clients' money on unnecessary tests myself, since I am very familiar with the costs, but sometime it takes more than a regular vet to proper diagnose a problem. Granted, there are issues that take quite some time to figure out, even for a specialist, and this might be one. Good thoughts for Ruby.
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Re: does your dog ever lose its balance for no reason?

Postby Kingsgurl » Thu Apr 05, 2012 2:18 am

Thinking good thoughts for Ruby from here too.
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Re: does your dog ever lose its balance for no reason?

Postby HappyPuppy » Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:16 am

Thanks, Kingsgurl - we're trading good wishes - LOL.

I hear you Val - we have been taking it slowly and it had been a couple of weeks since we went in. Ruby is just so 'good' in every other area that this hasn't felt like a crisis, life or death situation that demands instant rectification.... Tho I'm angry that my first 2 emails took a week each to get to the doc -so I snail mailed my last communication prior to this week's visit. I at least want this vet to actually witness this herself before we pull out the big guns. Yesterday, I ran Ruby hard at lunch and she was stable.......... so we're chasing an elusive intermittent thing.
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