OFFICIAL ear cropping/tail docking debate thread

[ChelseaB]

I'll do what I want with my dog .

Given that this is the common mantra of those who choose to fight dogs, chain them, abuse and neglect them, these are probably not the best choice of words to use in a Pit Bull forum.

My 3 pit bulls are my 3 children, and while I don't necessarily hate the look of cropped ears, I would never willingly subject my babies to a painful, unnecessary cosmetic procedure. Especially concerning their ears! A dogs ears (and tail) speak VOLUMES of their mental state. Not to mention, how friggin cute is it when you get that one ear up, one ear down look from a pit? It's heart melting!

If you want a dog with cropped ears, please, please check your shelters! There are literally thousands of amazing, earless pits just waiting for someone to scoop them up!

[moya07]

I really can not understand what good come this thread I been looking at it since i got my new pit puppy and it did not change my mind just like atleast 99% of readers. We just got Samson back from the Vet and is please with his crop. This thread seems to be move about causing people to be put in one of two camps the ones that support the Breed Standard (cropping) and the ones that do not and causing them to fight over it instead of working together and fighting against those who are a real danger to the breed. People who abuse them by fighting them or just trying to make them means and those who allow their fears to get the best of them and trying to out law our wonderful dogs. Anybody can call names and point fingers on a website instead about we see if we can do some good for the Breed

[AllisonPibbleLvr]

I can do both? I can fight for the reputation of the breed and disagree about cropping. I'm a good multitasker.

[MarMar]

I really can not understand what good come this thread I been looking at it since i got my new pit puppy and it did not change my mind just like atleast 99% of readers. We just got Samson back from the Vet and is please with his crop. This thread seems to be move about causing people to be put in one of two camps the ones that support the Breed Standard (cropping) and the ones that do not and causing them to fight over it instead of working together and fighting against those who are a real danger to the breed. People who abuse them by fighting them or just trying to make them means and those who allow their fears to get the best of them and trying to out law our wonderful dogs. Anybody can call names and point fingers on a website instead about we see if we can do some good for the Breed

Agreed with Allison. This post is full of inconsistencies and fallacies. I'm for animal welfare, and that includes responsible dog ownership, AND not surgically removing parts of dogs that belong left on.

[Enigma]

people to be put in one of two camps the ones that support the Breed Standard (cropping)

How is cropping supporting the breed standard? Please explain. Here in Europe there are more and more countries where cropping is illigal and showing a cropped dog is forbidden. I've just seen that even Croatia will be joining countries who have these laws next year and Croatia is VERY strong in the Amstaff world. People will HAVE TO have uncropped dogs if they will want to participate in dog shows, you know, those things where judges judge dogs how they fit the BREED STANDARD? And even on pitbull shows I've been to so far most judges disqualified a cropped dog, or cropped dogs werent even allowed to participate. A part of a breed standard is also the correct position of the tail and ear set, if you crop them you will never know if the dog has a correct tail/ear set, with cropping you can easily hide miskates like a gay tail, kinked tail, flat ears, bat ears, etc. If you judge a breed by a breed standard those things are important. So yeah, cropping makes even less sense.

[Celesteandthebullies]

Yeeeeaaah... a lot of ADBA judges don't like crops. Standard for some breeds (Oh! the lovely UKC made it so that a dog cannot be docked points for being natural) but not the APBT

[Mooresmajestic]

Actually....

All 3 major kennel clubs (AKC, UKC, ADBA) state:

UKC-
EARS - Ears are high set and may be natural or cropped without preference. Prick or flat, wide ears are not desired.

AKC-
Ears - Cropped or uncropped, the latter preferred. Uncropped ears should be short and held rose or half prick. Full drop to be penalized.

(I can't pull up the ADBA standard on my phone, it's a pdf, but it says the same thing as the other 2.)

Just because the registry allows for cropped ears in the standard, it does not make it THE standard.

[snikles]

I really can not understand what good come this thread I been looking at it since i got my new pit puppy and it did not change my mind just like atleast 99% of readers. We just got Samson back from the Vet and is please with his crop. This thread seems to be move about causing people to be put in one of two camps the ones that support the Breed Standard (cropping) and the ones that do not and causing them to fight over it instead of working together and fighting against those who are a real danger to the breed. People who abuse them by fighting them or just trying to make them means and those who allow their fears to get the best of them and trying to out law our wonderful dogs. Anybody can call names and point fingers on a website instead about we see if we can do some good for the Breed

If you want to do good for the breed then stop cropping their ears.

[jamielvsaustin]

I really can not understand what good come this thread I been looking at it since i got my new pit puppy and it did not change my mind just like atleast 99% of readers. We just got Samson back from the Vet and is please with his crop. This thread seems to be move about causing people to be put in one of two camps the ones that support the Breed Standard (cropping) and the ones that do not and causing them to fight over it instead of working together and fighting against those who are a real danger to the breed. People who abuse them by fighting them or just trying to make them means and those who allow their fears to get the best of them and trying to out law our wonderful dogs. Anybody can call names and point fingers on a website instead about we see if we can do some good for the Breed

^^^This coming from a person who believes they have a tiger striped brindle gator mouth....Likely, the dog you have isn't even an APBT.

Along with what Moores posted (which discredits your "support the breed standard") you seem to have little knowledge on the breed.

I personally would never crop a dog in any way that was unneeded. I'll never be able to understand "because I like the way it looks" argument. To me, it's an unnecessary risk. But if someone else wants to, I just hope they do as much research about it and the after care as possible...and then research the best vet in their area to perform the surgery. From what I understand (like Enigma pointed out) it's getting harder and harder to find vets that will do it.

[Breezy833]

having had a rottweiler for 8 years. I like a tailless dog. And the little nub is extra cute when it wiggles. Im sure as you well know the docking was done when she was days old. Had she had a tail when i got her, that would have been fine too. My current pup has all the parts he was born with. Living in an area for poor ownership of pit bulls i think ear cropping sends the wrong message. I'm still getting used to him sweeping things off the table with his tail tho.

[cookiexd40]

I'll do what I want with my dog .

Given that this is the common mantra of those who choose to fight dogs, chain them, abuse and neglect them, these are probably not the best choice of words to use in a Pit Bull forum.

My 3 pit bulls are my 3 children, and while I don't necessarily hate the look of cropped ears, I would never willingly subject my babies to a painful, unnecessary cosmetic procedure. Especially concerning their ears! A dogs ears (and tail) speak VOLUMES of their mental state. Not to mention, how friggin cute is it when you get that one ear up, one ear down look from a pit? It's heart melting!

If you want a dog with cropped ears, please, please check your shelters! There are literally thousands of amazing, earless pits just waiting for someone to scoop them up!

I agree with her


Sent via rotary phone txt MSG

[HersheyBear]

She's not talking about dogs going home, medicated. She's talking about how they come OUT of anesthesia, before those other meds come into play. I wouldn't be so quick to discount people who watch dogs wake up, they are there, they see it. You are free to make your own choices on 'if it hurts' or'is the pain worth it to me' but I've seen it too. My Vet won't do them anymore because of it. It haunts you. But then they go home all medicated in their cones and the owners are all 'see, it doesn't hurt at all!"

On a semi related note, it's the same with cats that get declawed. They're so miserable while waking up and during the aftercare, and many of them have arthritis and pain issues after, but the owners see them after the pain patch and treatment and think that the cat's fine.

[jalapenocupcakes]

When you wake up a dog from anesthesia after an ear crop and they are screaming at the top of their lungs in agony, even after they received a pain injection before the procedure, you will not like ear cropping.

When you have to physically hold a two day old puppy so that the veterinarian can cut off it's tail and dew claws, you will not like a docked tail. (by the way, it is common practice for the puppy's to go through this procedure without any sedation or pain meds)

When you have to sedate a dog just to clean it's cropped and now infected ears because their idiot owners took off the bandages too soon or did it themselves with scissors, you will not like ear cropping.

If you have a heart and can imagine your ears or tail being cut off, sometimes with little to no sedation, sometimes with little to no pain medication afterwards, you will not crop or dock.

I have been working for a vet for years and thankfully my new owner doesn't do any ear cropping or tail docking because I don't think I could stomach it anymore.

[vicarious]

I agree Sarah.

I'm waiting for someone to make it vogue for people to start cropping their ears. Or notching them to identify with particular "groups".
Sounds barbaric doesn't it? Kind of like branding, pretty extreme but if someone wants to, what ever. The difference is, we have self awareness and can choose to do it. Dogs don't, they just have to deal with the fact that their human likes to cut ears off. I don't have a problem with those of you who have done it, I like the look of cropped ears but I couldn't do it............. I just can't inflict pain on my dog for asthetics.

I know this post is from 2004 but I thought I would point out that people actually DO crop their ears although it is called "pointing" -- http://www.instructables.com/id/Body-Mod-Elf-Ears/
My husband has gauged ears (only 1/2 inch) and it was a relatively painless process.
I am not against cropping as long as it is done by an experienced vet with anasthetic. Docking doesn't bother me either.

[tarosar]

I also see cropping and docking akin to body modification, but what's got people up in arms is that the dog didn't choose to crop or dock, it's the owner.

I am sorry, but my dog is an animal. Although I love her, and she is an essential part of my family, she is still a dog at the end of the day. If I ever had to make a choice, would I choose her to live, or a lowly human? And would I be wrong to choose the human? Unfortunately, this is what would polarize me from most "dog lovers". My love for my own species, as disgusting as we could be, trumps dogs.

People have discarded the "master" label towards dogs to the less intrusive "owner" or "handler" or more humane "mom" and "dad". But until dogs are able to communicate "We don't want to be kept like slaves," I don't really care if a person docks or crops. As long as the pup is healthy and has a loving happy home, it's none of my business what people choose to do with their dogs.