confused about rice and potatoes.

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Re: confused about rice and potatoes.

Postby Misskiwi67 » Sun Apr 07, 2013 5:48 pm

El_EmDubya wrote:
This is a BIG sign of "IBS", aka food allergies. The Four Major Horsemen of food allergies are Wheat, Corn, Soy, Dairy, so absolutely eliminate all of those for at least a month. An elimination diet as you'll be able to determine if it is meat or "other based".



FIRST Beef and Chicken, then Dairy, then wheat corn and soy. Proteins cause allergies, so meat sources are important causes of allergies as well.
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Re: confused about rice and potatoes.

Postby El_EmDubya » Sun Apr 07, 2013 6:36 pm

Misskiwi67 wrote:
El_EmDubya wrote:
This is a BIG sign of "IBS", aka food allergies. The Four Major Horsemen of food allergies are Wheat, Corn, Soy, Dairy, so absolutely eliminate all of those for at least a month. An elimination diet as you'll be able to determine if it is meat or "other based".



FIRST Beef and Chicken, then Dairy, then wheat corn and soy. Proteins cause allergies, so meat sources are important causes of allergies as well.


No...go for the big wins FIRST, especially since the carbs in plant matter also contribute to inflammation, which begins the chain events leading to greater health issues than just IBS. It is far easier to exclude plant proteins first, than excluding meats.

Gluten IS protein and proteins ARE found in plant cells. Plus many plants have Saponin, including soy, which protects the plant, but harms the intestinal structure, essentially punching holes in the GI. (Chinese Medicine has used these Saponin to their benefit as increasing the gut's permeability to allow "large" herbal based medicines into the bloodstream is a part of the herb combining strategies.)

Beef, Chicken, and Dairy can be an issue of secondary sourcing as there are MANY animals on the Raw Feeding forums who experience IBS symptoms from eating animal products fed corn, soy, and other unnatural diets, but have NO issues from pastured meats/dairy. And don't forget that most "cheap" fish products are farmed as well, so that feeding Salmon+sweet potatoes strategy can backfire, if you don't do your research.

Plants exhibit amazing survival techniques which exploit consumption of plant products, so don't think they are a "weak" force... http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/09/21/what-you-eat-affects-your-genes-rna-from-rice-can-survive-digestion-and-alter-gene-expression/


LMW
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Re: confused about rice and potatoes.

Postby Misskiwi67 » Fri Apr 12, 2013 1:11 pm

Proc Nutr Soc. 2005 Nov;64(4):458-64.
The canine model of dietary hypersensitivity.
Day MJ.
Source
Division of Veterinary Pathology, Infection and Immunity, School of Clinical Veterinary Science, University of Bristol, Langford, UK. m.j.day@bristol.ac.uk
Abstract
IgE-mediated dietary hypersensitivity affects approximately 1% of the canine population. There are no breed associations and < or =50% of the patients are aged <1 year at presentation. The most common causative allergens are beef, chicken, milk, eggs, maize, wheat and soyabean. Affected dogs generally display cutaneous disease and 10-15% of the patients may have concurrent alimentary involvement. Diagnosis is currently based on dietary restriction followed by provocation. Procedures for the detection of serum allergen-specific IgE and IgG antibodies are widely available, but these tests correlate poorly with clinical presentation and dietary testing. Recent studies have demonstrated the allergen specificity of IgE antibodies by immunoblotting and have described blood lymphocyte proliferative responses to food allergens. In addition to investigations of spontaneously-arising dietary hypersensitivity, it has also proved possible to study this disorder experimentally. Small colonies of dogs sensitive to particular dietary proteins have been used to study clinical and serological responses to allergen challenge. Hypersensitivity has been experimentally induced in dogs of an atopic phenotype by repeated subcutaneous injection of alum-adjuvanted dietary allergen during neonatal life. These models have been used to trial a range of modified protein or hydrolysate diets. The dog provides a unique large-animal model for investigation of the immunopathogenesis of human dietary hypersensitivity. The dog is closely related genetically to man and shares environmental disease triggers with man. Spontaneously arising canine dietary hypersensitivity is a good clinical mimic of the human disease, and ability to therapeutically manipulate this adverse response in the dog might lead to benefits for human patients.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16313687

"Nuff Said...
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Re: confused about rice and potatoes.

Postby El_EmDubya » Fri Apr 12, 2013 8:00 pm

Read Pharmageddon and get back to me...

Published research is HIGHLY biased.

Believe me... I'm a doctoral student trying to get published in "A" journals, as required by my program. I've been shot down too many times to mention as my topics are "too controversial"... or "you'll never be hired after publishing something like that", regardless of the worth to the general population. (I'm in the NIH/Salk Institute world...)

Look at what you see in the clinic. Ask your patients what they are doing, what works, and what they think. Science is a trailing industry and...primary (clinic) data is ALWAYS better than published due to the degradation of data over time.

PLEASE, please hop onto the many raw feeding forums!!!! You'll do your clients a service by collecting unbiased, real world tested solutions.

Be a skeptic and keep it "real"...

And as always, I appreciate your "spunk"!

LMW
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Re: confused about rice and potatoes.

Postby Misskiwi67 » Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:04 pm

El_EmDubya wrote:Read Pharmageddon and get back to me...

Published research is HIGHLY biased.



I disagree that most topics are as biased in veterinary medicine - its MUCH easier to get published and do research independently. I have also worked in research (although short term, not a fan). There are some topics that have $$$ behind them, but in general its less of a concern and less of an effect on veterinary medicine. Our biggest problem in vet med is pure lack of research...

I understand the pharmaceuticals issues, and wish it wasn't the case...

Also remember dogs are not people, (just like cats are not small dogs), and while some things apply, not everything does.
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Re: confused about rice and potatoes.

Postby El_EmDubya » Thu May 02, 2013 10:00 am

Misskiwi67 wrote:
El_EmDubya wrote:Read Pharmageddon and get back to me...

Published research is HIGHLY biased.



I disagree that most topics are as biased in veterinary medicine - its MUCH easier to get published and do research independently.


Yes, in crapppy journals, true. In ranked A or B, not so much. You REALLY should understand what goes on behind the scenes in research, if you plan to use "evidence based research" and RCTs as a determining factor in your treatment decisions.


Misskiwi67 wrote:I have also worked in research (although short term, not a fan). There are some topics that have $$$ behind them, but in general its less of a concern and less of an effect on veterinary medicine. Our biggest problem in vet med is pure lack of research...


The Pet Industry is huge and growing, despite the economic downturn... Scientifically and businesswise it faces huge trickle down from human based industry. Just look at Prozac and the use of psych meds for pets in the last 10 years in Vet Med. It mirrors what has already happened in human medicine because it is the MBAs who are controlling the system, not the MDs/DVMs.

Misskiwi67 wrote:I understand the pharmaceuticals issues, and wish it wasn't the case...

Just be prepared for Vet Med to get worse... Behavior that is rewarded is repeated, after-all.

Misskiwi67 wrote:Also remember dogs are not people, (just like cats are not small dogs), and while some things apply, not everything does.


True, in some science, but this is business. The life-force of business is money and it follows natural laws as well. (You'd probably be interested in the discussions of chirality in pharmaceutical research. This topic really opened my eyes to how industry manipulates both science and statistics.)

Read the book, really.

LMW

(And anyone else on psych meds, or dealing with chronic issues requiring meds should also read it. There have been lots of changes in research in the last 30 years that have the potential to negatively impact your health.)
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Re: confused about rice and potatoes.

Postby starrlamia » Thu May 02, 2013 2:33 pm

You're not one of those anti psych med people?

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Re: confused about rice and potatoes.

Postby El_EmDubya » Thu May 02, 2013 3:45 pm

starrlamia wrote:You're not one of those anti psych med people?

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IMHO...very few people truly need psych meds, and certainly not the 30% of my students (adults) who are currently on them. For those that do need them, there are PLENTY of drugs that are not patent protected and have weathered the market trial storm to be proven to be safe AND effective.

A great example is Vit D3 and the generation of Drs trained in the 80s who are afraid of fat soluble vitamins. Yes, they can cause birth defects and a host of other issues, but they are essential for human health. If your Vit D3 blood concentrations aren't in the 50-80 range, you will feel health issues that do relate to mental health.

Here are some good articles:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-breakthrough-depression-solution/201111/psychological-consequences-vitamin-d-deficiency
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evolutionary-psychiatry/201304/sunlight-and-adhd
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/31/health/policy/31psych.html?ref=josephbiederman

I truly wish you all good health, but you have to be an educated consumer, especially if it relates to long term meds. There is NO INCENTIVE for the medical or pharmaceutical companies to heal you, only to medicate and "manage" your care. If you are on long term meds of ANY kind, read the book and check out Dr Healy's website for side effect information. I used it to tie my father's use of Ambien to aggression. His Dr was unaware that this was a common side effect, along with suicide/attempts. His nursing facility (he had PD and died this Fall) was VERY happy to get support to get him off Ambien as assisted care facilities have no control over prescribed meds and must do as the doctors say...

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Re: confused about rice and potatoes.

Postby Misskiwi67 » Thu May 02, 2013 8:37 pm

I wish there was less Vitamin D3 in human medicine - dogs like to eat entire bottles of the yummy oil and require a 2,000 hospitalization stay to prevent kidney failure. This is not a toxicity we had to deal with 5 years ago.

We are seeing big issues with pharmaceuticals lately. The biggest problem is actually old generics that are no longer profitable to produce. Somebody stops making them, someone else gets the market share and the price skyrockets. Metronidazole, Phenobarbital and Doxycycline (all cheap generics) just went up in price between 300 and 500% in the past 6 months...
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Re: confused about rice and potatoes.

Postby El_EmDubya » Thu May 02, 2013 9:39 pm

[quote="Misskiwi67"]I wish there was less Vitamin D3 in human medicine - dogs like to eat entire bottles of the yummy oil and require a 2,000 hospitalization stay to prevent kidney failure. This is not a toxicity we had to deal with 5 years ago.
/quote]

Yep, not surprised, people don't think of it as a powerful hormone.... I read a while ago there was an issue with cat kibble having too much Vit D causing renal failure, rather than dehydration from dry food.

Too bad the solution is to have food that we don't have to supplement - pastured meats, diary, eggs, etc. US food sources aren't "natural" anymore and it will be at least a generation or two to fix.

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Re: confused about rice and potatoes.

Postby starrlamia » Fri May 03, 2013 12:23 pm

I agree that people are over medicated, you have any better references than psychology today?

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Re: confused about rice and potatoes.

Postby El_EmDubya » Fri May 03, 2013 1:01 pm

Psych Today is readable...unlike most of the scientific publications. :) But then again, we get back to the issue that science is a trailing industry. Clinicians see events/phenomenon and researchers hear about it, leading to eventual research.

Here's a great video from the UC medical system regarding Vit D3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cq1t9WqOD-0 (Yes it is a hour long, but it really good. I really recommend the UCtelevision channel!!! LOVE IT!!)

Here are some links, but WebMD and Google Scholar are a good place to start if you are looking for specific topics.

http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/health-conditions/depression/http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/health-conditions/depression/ (Scroll to the bottom for references)

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1011134410001879
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S030698770700240X
http://journals.lww.com/ajgponline/Abstract/2006/12000/Vitamin_D_Deficiency_Is_Associated_With_Low_Mood.7.aspx


LMW

PS If you are supplementing w/Vit D3, rather than tanning, careful w/calcium supplements.
PPS Yes, I will be tanning this Summer. It is too important for brain and bone health to worry about wrinkles/skin cancer.
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Re: confused about rice and potatoes.

Postby starrlamia » Sat May 04, 2013 12:37 pm

Um don't you get vitamin D from a lot less sun exposure than tanning?

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Re: confused about rice and potatoes.

Postby El_EmDubya » Sat May 04, 2013 12:50 pm

starrlamia wrote:Um don't you get vitamin D from a lot less sun exposure than tanning?


Vit D from LESS sun? I don't understand. The skin makes vit D as a reaction to sun exposure...
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Re: confused about rice and potatoes.

Postby Misskiwi67 » Sat May 04, 2013 1:04 pm

El_EmDubya wrote:
starrlamia wrote:Um don't you get vitamin D from a lot less sun exposure than tanning?


Vit D from LESS sun? I don't understand. The skin makes vit D as a reaction to sun exposure...



I think she meant you shouldn't have to tan (or be a farmer etc.) to get vitamin D...
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