A visit to the vet...

Talk about diets, exercise, and disease.

A visit to the vet...

Postby hyperbole » Tue Jun 15, 2004 9:45 am

Took Poplin to the vet yesterday, a very nice woman who came very highly recommended by Odnarb.

We were talking about Poplin's allergies and his diet and I mentioned that we sometimes suppliment his kibble with raw food and she said to be careful because dogs can get salmonella just like human's can... is this true??? If so, why do so many people feed their dogs raw chicken? This vet we visited even recommended that we cook Poplin's eggs before feeding them to him....said that he would ge the same nutrients that way.

So.....now I'm confuzzled. :huh?:
Last edited by hyperbole on Tue Jun 15, 2004 10:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby barbponys » Tue Jun 15, 2004 9:55 am

Dogs can get salmonella, lysteria, e coli and lots of other nasties. Generally dogs have to have a supressed immune system to be a target though. The very young, the very old and sick dogs are the most likely to come down with it, just like people. There's all kinds of possible risk to feeding raw, perforations, tears, reactions, there's no guarantees. There are just as many risks feeding processed food, chronic illness, liver, kidney, thyroid & weight issues not to mention all the skin and coat problems. I choose to go the raw route and take my chances. After so many years and so many dogs on it I won't go back.
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Postby barbponys » Tue Jun 15, 2004 10:01 am

I also disagree totally with the statement that they get the same nutrients from a cooked egg as raw. They don't. Considering the number of people that eat their eggs over easy or sunny side up and the hysteria about salmonella we should all be dropping like flies. Poplin is healthy and hasn't had any reactions??? Go with that.........just be aware.
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Postby bluesky1966 » Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:32 am

Dogs do get salmonella but it takes a larger amount of bacteria to get them sick. Dogs' ancestors were hunter/scavengers so their immune system is a lot tougher than ours and they heal faster [most of the time] too.
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Postby damienApbt » Tue Jun 15, 2004 4:14 pm

what are the benefits to feedign raw eggs??

is it good to mix it with a kibble diet??
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Postby moto1320 » Tue Jun 15, 2004 4:29 pm

Raw eggs are great for the coat and a high source of protein. My dogs love em too, yuk.

My vet just said the same thing Hyper. My thing is, it's not like we're feeding our pets spoiled food. I eat all kinds of raw stuff. I was a Sushi Chef and would live on raw fish if I could. Even when I was a chef in a French/Cajun place there were tons of raw things. Steak Tatar isn't so much as even heated, Hollandaise or Ceaser dressing have raw eggs, Sashimi grade tuna steak is always served raw in the middle in any resteraunt of quality, quality pork cuts are to be served pink in the middle. I wouldn't ever touch raw pork or chicken, but anything else... Give it too me bloody. I have never gotten sick. Actual cases of Salmonella are very very low. Especially from eggs. Dogs can get all of these nasty things, but so can we so I don't feed them much that I wouldn't eat. (kibble aside :)) )

The art that is french cuisine is all from lack of refridgeration and masking the smell taste of rotten food that people used to eat, in it's origin. Many delicacies still are, in all actuality, rotten. I say weak diet, weak immune system. Better not to sweat it. Poplin won't. lol [/i]
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Postby HugABull1 » Tue Jun 15, 2004 6:45 pm

I think it depends on the vet you talk to hyper. My vet supports me feeding raw, but he also is the vet for a zoological center, and it's not like they feed the tiger's kibble ya know? He says there are risks with any diet, and he feels raw is the best option for my dogs.

And yes, dogs CAN get salmonella, ecoli, and just about any other nasty. Which is why you should always handle their food as if it were for you. However, dogs do have a more acidic stomach and a shorter digestive tract than humans, which makes them less susceptible to food poisoning.

If the meat is close to turning, and not something I myself would eat, I don't feed it to my dogs. However, my dogs take bones out in the yard, let them get good and "ripe" (we've got one nasty, juicy bone that's been out there for a month or so), then attempt to drag them in the house and onto the living room rug to eat them :yucky: Apparently it tastes better "aged" lol. My dogs also eat poop - theirs, my kid's (he doesn't always flush), the neighborhood cat's...you get the picture. If they can eat poo, and dead things they find, and nasty ole' rotting bones from the yard, I hardly think a raw egg or some fresh, clean raw meat is gonna hurt them.

As far as nutrition from a cooked protein versus a raw protein? It's six of one half a dozen of the other. Cooking a protein denatures (damages) some of the enzymes and amino acids (good stuff), lowering its nutritional value. On the other hand, there are just as many enzymes and amino acids which humans (and dogs I would imagine) cannot digest raw, we need them to be denatured in order to use them. The problem with a cooked diet is you can't cook the bone or it becomes dangerous. You can feed a cooked diet and supplement bone meal, but it's kind of a pain (in my opinion). Plus, raw bones are great for keeping teeth clean, keeping doggy busy and building jaw strength. I feed raw because my dogs love it, it keeps their teeth and jaw healthy, and I'm lazy lol.
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Postby barbponys » Wed Jun 16, 2004 9:36 am

I had an interesting discussion with a vet, he wasn't a youngster, perhaps 55 so he has been in practice quite some time. He came into the store because he knew we sold a lot of raw food and wanted to see what we had and why we chose the formulas. He has 2 young vets that work for him. They believe that feeding raw will kill a dog or cat. He said it was fascinating how they came out of vet school totally brain washed. He SELLS B.A.R.F. in his clinic. He has a freezer in the reception area. These young vets fight with him about it and though a large number of their clients feed raw they refuse to acknowledge the benefits. He has turned diabetic animals around, liver issues have been reversed and though he sees most of them far less often he's a very vocal advocate of raw. It's suppose to be about helping the animals........right?? "Above all else do no harm........"? Sigh. I understand the concerns and the possible problems........but to say it will kill your dog or cat? I can't even begin to understand that.
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Postby Odnarb » Sun Jun 20, 2004 2:58 pm

bluesky1966 wrote:Dogs do get salmonella but it takes a larger amount of bacteria to get them sick. Dogs' ancestors were hunter/scavengers so their immune system is a lot tougher than ours and they heal faster [most of the time] too.



Our ancestors were hunter/scavengers, too. And, dogs aren't wolves anymore.

Lots of dogs do well on raw food, and lots of dogs do poorly on raw food. It's not a magic bullet, and it's not for every dog.
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Postby barbponys » Mon Jun 21, 2004 4:12 pm

Not every dog does well on raw, no argument there. I know a handful who don't tolerate it and conversely know hundreds that do.

If raw was causing as many wide spread problems as the recent news story up here would have you believe(sponsored by Iams by the way), I think we would be hearing more of our clients complaining about sick dogs. We have probably 650 regulars and more than half feed raw, that's a good cross section of breed and age, no problems so far and after 7 years of the store carrying it I would imagine quite a few of the dogs or cats would come down with SOME of the reported health issues.

Just my perspective on long time sales and feeding.
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