Demodex treatment question

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Demodex treatment question

Postby Maximus » Sat Jul 03, 2004 10:20 am

I took Chico to the vet this morning and she scraped a small "hot spot" on the side of his face... looks like he's got demodex. :( I'm not too alarmed, as I've read that chances are good he'll just sort of fight it off eventually, and it's extremely localized. I've since scoured the rest of his body and the nickel-sized bald patch on his face is all I could find.

My question, however, is about treatment. I've read that most vets don't even treat localized cases right away... they wait it out to see if it'll go away on its own. My vet (who I really do like) prescribed Goodwinol ointment (Benzocaine and Rotenone, mostly) to apply topically once a day, and she also gave me antibiotics. Do some vets arbitrarily prescribe antibiotics for localized demodex? There's no sign of secondary infection, though I know that's a danger... I'm just not such a big fan of antibiotics unless they're really necessary. What do you all think?

Also, I'm thinking with the antibiotics I should supplement his diet with yogurt. Yes? How much? He gets a cup and a half of Nature's Recipe lamb and rice twice daily.

THANK YOU!
Maximus
 

Postby moto1320 » Sat Jul 03, 2004 11:16 am

Mine are just coming off of a round of antibiotics and I give them a tablespoon or two of yogurt with their food. Foods like Innova have these probiotics already in them. You can also hit any health food store and pick up pure Lactobillicus or the like to add to the food to really juice their system with good bateria after the antibiotics are over. I agree though, I don't really like antibiotics, never take them myself unless I am dying, and feel that vets over prescribe the hell out of them.

I would try to keep the immune system in tip top shape with diet and exercise to see if they were going to beat it on their own first. Though I am not a vet. Maybe switch to a higher grade of kibble and supplement in some good things first. I add in olive oil, salmon, raw eggs, and give veggies at times. Good luck.
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Postby Anshey » Sat Jul 03, 2004 11:17 am

When Angel was 4 months old she was dx with localized demodex. Her vet put her on the ointment and antibiotics because he said that it could easily turn into a staff infection, especially in hot weather. After her vet vist, she had a couple more spots pop up so I treated them with the ointment to. Also I gave her weekly baths with a good sulfa shampoo. Just keep looking for new spots and treat them. It took a couple of months for her spots to totally fade.
I don't think the antibiotics really helps the demodex, I think it is for prevention of it turning into somthing else.
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Postby pocketpit » Sat Jul 03, 2004 1:17 pm

Atibiotics won't help, they're for any secondary infection that occurs. I wouldn't use it unless you have a problem with his skin. If you do decide to give it then by all means give a spoonful of plain yogurt, cottage cheese or something else similar to help his digestive system.
The Goodwinol ointment has mixed reviews. I've used it before on a couple of different dogs and I thought it made a difference. Others say it hasn't worked for them and vets can't agree. Many think that since localized cases often just work themselves out how can we know if the ointment was working or if it was just coincidental that the patch healed. Would it have healed without the ointment? One thing to remember is that when rubbing it into the site you are going to be breaking off diseased hair follicles which can make the spot initially appear to be getting bigger.
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Postby Maximus » Sat Jul 03, 2004 1:18 pm

Anshey wrote:I don't think the antibiotics really helps the demodex, I think it is for prevention of it turning into somthing else.


Yeah, that's what I thought, Anshey, and actually, that's my concern. Is it really smart to use an antibiotic preventatively? I mean, I guess I don't know if there is a secondary infection at this point (could be...) but it doesn't seem like it. No scabbing, no puss or bumps, it doesn't even seem to be bothering Chico at all... he hasn't scratched at his face more than once or twice in the last few days that I've seen.

I guess I probably should just give him the antibiotics, huh?
Maximus
 

Postby Maximus » Sat Jul 03, 2004 1:19 pm

Pocketpit, we crossposted... thanks!
Maximus
 

Postby Leslie H » Sat Jul 03, 2004 5:13 pm

I'd watch it for secondary infections, and avoid the antibiotics, especially w/a tiny localized patch like that. I'm glad your vet is keeping the treatment low key. I really dislike the mitaban dip, it's so harsh in some cases it seems to make the dog's condition worse. Demo is usually at its worse between 4-8 or 9 months, until the immune system really gets strong.
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Re: Demodex treatment question

Postby bluesky1966 » Mon Jul 05, 2004 10:52 am

[quote="Maximus"]IMy question, however, is about treatment. I've read that most vets don't even treat localized cases right away... they wait it out to see if it'll go away on its own. My vet (who I really do like) prescribed Goodwinol ointment (Benzocaine and Rotenone, mostly) to apply topically once a day, and she also gave me antibiotics. Do some vets arbitrarily prescribe antibiotics for localized demodex? There's no sign of secondary infection, though I know that's a danger..quote]

yes they do to cover their butt---plus alot of ignorant dog owners like to walk out of every vet visit with some pills to show why they paid 4 the visit in the 1st place---[stupid but a real attitude ive seen]


julia
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Postby Maximus » Mon Jul 05, 2004 4:30 pm

That's what I figured, bluesky.

I decided I'm going to hold off on the antibiotic and keep a close eye on the spots, keep treating it with the topical stuff, and see if it makes a dent. He's got another appointment on Saturday.

Thanks again, all!
Maximus
 

Postby Maximus » Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:51 am

Just thought I'd update, in case it's helpful to anyone else:

I didn't give Chico the antibiotics after all... I opted to use the Goodwinol once a day and keep a close eye on the spot on his face. I started giving him flax-seed oil and garlic once a day to help boost his immune system. He never developed any other spots, and he never showed any sign of secondary infection. In fact, the spot on his face didn't seem to trouble him at all.

He had a second appointment within a week, and the hair had already appeared to be growing back. The vet even commented on the regrowth. Despite this, he (different doc, same office) prescribed another two-week round of antibiotics. :po: So I kept my mouth shut (I know, stupid...), paid for the scrip (which, thankfully, was only $6), and continued to withhold the antibiotic.

It's been four weeks since his first skin scraping and diagnosis, and I stopped treating it with Goodwinol about two weeks ago. The hair is filling in the entire spot rapidly (can't tell it was bald, really, without looking pretty closely).

I'm beginning to think I should find a new vet. I don't like the idea that they wanted me to arbitrarily pump my dog with antibiotics without any sign of infection, much less after signs of rapid improvement. I know I should've said something at the time, but what can I say? I'm intimidated, maybe. :oops: Does anybody else have a hard time questioning their vets' motives? And do you think I need to have another skin scraping if the spot seems to be almost entirely regrown/recovered?
Maximus
 

Postby pocketpit » Mon Aug 02, 2004 4:02 pm

Glad to hear your boy is rapidly recovering! Because it was localized, I wouldn't opt for another scraping. Just contiue to keep an eye on him for other spots to appear.
I don't think you are alone in feeling that you can't say something to your vet. Many folks are like that. I get to see both ends of the spectrum. Vets doing sometimes un necessary stuff that's expensive for owners (sometimes to cover their ass, and other times because if the owner can afford it why not do everything possible to help the pet) and owners who bitch about every little thing the vet does and how they're just being ripped off. They don't want to listen to what the vet has to say or they listen half way and then repeat what they think they heard to someone else. I've seen them "conviently" forget that their first vet recommended blood work or x-rays that they declined because of cost and say "no, the other vet didn't do anything but give us these pills" when they go somewhere else for the same problem.
Bottom line is that you have to be comfortable with your vet and if you're not shop around till you find another one that makes you happier.
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Postby Leslie H » Mon Aug 02, 2004 4:53 pm

I would speak to your vet about your preference to avoid antibiotics whenever reasonable. Trends in human medicine are moving away from antibiotics.
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Postby mnp13 » Mon Aug 02, 2004 8:31 pm

About the yogurt: it should be plain whole milk yogurt with multiple active cultures and no fillers. Stoneyfield and Brown Cow Farm are good brands. The ingredients should be whole milk and cultures/enzymes that's IT.

Cottage cheese is made in a completely different process than yogurt - it is a cheese not a cultured product - so does not have the 'stuff' that you need for the dog.

Michelle
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Postby blover27 » Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:13 pm

Is low fat ok? That's what we have been using... :huh?:
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Postby Maximus » Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:57 pm

Stoneyfield's the only yogurt I eat. Though I prefer the vanilla to the plain. :tongue:

So, let me ask you... is that a good all-around supplement? Since I didn't end up giving him the antibiotics, I skipped the yogurt, but if it's good for 'em anyway, I'll give it to 'em.
Maximus
 

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