Nutro-Max

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Nutro-Max

Postby tuesdaysmom » Tue Jul 06, 2004 4:17 pm

I do not feed Nutro-Max, I feed Diamond Puppy. Anyway, I am on another message board and a guy said that his dog had an extremely bad bout with Cancer and he is recovering now, but that the vet and a specialist said it is because of Nutro-Max. They preserve their food in ethoxyquin and thet this chemical causes cancer in pets and people. Has anyone heard of this??
Feel free to Move this to Health Issues, I couldn't help it, I had to post it just in case. I have asked for more information about it, as soon as I hear, I will let everyone know.
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Postby mydogroxy » Tue Jul 06, 2004 4:20 pm

i don't know specifically about that food or chemical. but i can tell you this, no matter what you feed, someone, somewhere is going to find something wrong with it.
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dog food and ethoxiquin

Postby dr961 » Tue Jul 06, 2004 4:32 pm

I agree that just about any food will be criticised by someone! After trying several different foods, plus a few months of raw, I'm now using Diamond Premium Adult mixed with a small amount of Diamond Lamb and Rice to bring up the calcium a bit. Judging from the ingredients and a detailed analysis sheet I have, Diamond Large Breed Puppy looks like a pretty good food, and not just for puppies. It's lamb, lamb meal and rice based. Unfortunately, I can't get it in my area. The Diamond Puppy (regular, not large breed puppy) is virtually the same as Diamond Professional (in the black bag), chicken by product/corn based.

As to ethoxiquin, lots of dog foods have it and you can't always tell from what it says on the ingredient label. This is because lots of the meat meals used in dog food have the ethoxiquin added by the supplier, so the dog food maker doesn't have to list it on their label. Sneaky, IMO.
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Postby tuesdaysmom » Tue Jul 06, 2004 6:27 pm

Here's what the guy I asked for more info replied::
I'VE SINCE GONE BACK TO THE PET STORE TO SHOW A BUDDY WHAT TO LOOK OUT FOR & TO MY AMAZEMENT...THEY NO LONGER LIST ETHOXYQUIN AS A PRESERVATIVE. I DON'T BELIEVE THAT THEY'VE STOPPED USING IT. I THINK THEY FOUND ANOTHER WAY TO PUT IT INTO THE FOOD WITHOUT HAVING TO LIST IT. THEY USE THE TERM...."PRESERVED WITH MIXED TOCOPHEROLS".....MEANING JUST ABOUT ANYTHING IN MY OPINON......OR MAYBE THEY HIDE IT IN THE TERM "A SOURCE OF VITAMIN -E"......I'M NOT SURE ANYMORE, BUT HAVE MY SUSPICIONS. I FREAKED WHEN I LOOKED FOR IT IN SEVERAL OTHER DOG FOOD BRANDS KNOWN TO PRESERVE WITH ETHOXYQUIN.......THEY'VE ALL SINCE FOLLOWED SUIT & I WAS UNABLE TO FIND A SINGLE DOG FOOD BRAND THAT LISTED IT AS A PRESERVITIVE!!! I THINK THEY JUST FOUND A HANDY LEGAL LOOPHOLE THAT THEY NOW USE SO THAT THEY CAN STILL ADD THIS AS A VERY CHEEP WAY TO PRESERVE OUR DOG'S FOOD....WITHOUT FREEKING US OUT BY HAVING TO LIST IT BY IT'S TRUE NAME ANYMORE. IF ANYONE KNOWS ANYMORE ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THE NEW REWORDING ISSUE.....PLEASE EXPAND!!!THANKS
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Ethoxyquin

Postby jcolt32 » Wed Jul 07, 2004 7:13 am

Hi. I own a pet store in NJ and have the same concerns about the foods I sell. The loophole for commercial dog food manufacturers is that they don't have to list "E" as a preservative if they don't use it. However, the ingredients they use are preserved with "E" and thus they don't have to list it because they are listing the ingredient. Look for reputable foods such as Canidae, California Natural, Innova, Flint River Ranch.

Tocopherols is "natural" as it is just vitamins. But it is a synthetic vitamin, but so are the ones we take over the counter like vitamin C. A much better preservative.

As far as Nutro goes, I don't beleive they use E anymore. I do know that Pedigree, Purina, Science Diet, Iams, Eukanuba and many others still do. Science diet still uses BHA and BHT, other harmful Chemical preserves. And, Science Diet and Eukanuba Vet formulas are no different. They are just as bad as the non-vet brands. Vets recommend them because if they sell enough, they can win cruises, prizes, even cars.
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Postby elegy » Wed Jul 07, 2004 8:25 am

i am not comfortable feeding a food with ethoxyquin in it, and like other people have mentioned, i am aware of the loopholes.

ethoxyquin has been proven to cause cancer in lab rats. in much higher quantities than what are in dog food, yes, but i figure why risk it when i don't have to? pits are prone enough to cancer as it is.

ethoxyquin is also not approved for use in human foods except for i think it's paprika? some spice.
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Postby jcolt32 » Wed Jul 07, 2004 9:20 am

elegy wrote:i am not comfortable feeding a food with ethoxyquin in it, and like other people have mentioned, i am aware of the loopholes.

ethoxyquin has been proven to cause cancer in lab rats. in much higher quantities than what are in dog food, yes, but i figure why risk it when i don't have to? pits are prone enough to cancer as it is.

ethoxyquin is also not approved for use in human foods except for i think it's paprika? some spice.


Incorrect. E is allowed for human consumption in very small amounts. I think it 15 ppm (parts per million). In dog food, it's allowed 10 TIMES more of a concentration at 150ppm - that's why it's kills our animals
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Postby barbponys » Wed Jul 07, 2004 11:32 am

It's a very true statement that no matter what you feed someone will have something to say about it. There are definite levels of quality though and Diamond is at the bottom end.......we used to carry it, had too many problems with it. A brand that uses by-product and corn in formulas is not a good sign.

I personally feel that feeding a lot of the commercial foods will exacerbate a breeds predilection to cancer. They do put a lot of crap in the foods and with suppressed immune systems it gives cancer the chance to get a foot hold.

Nutro used to be a good food, for what was available. I fed it 20 years ago, actually up till about '95 till I learned more about foods. It's still a big name and in my book that doesn't instill trust. They will swear there is no corn in their formulas yet the 3rd or 4th ingredient is corn gluten........they HEART of the corn...........GRRRR. If they will lie about that what else have they decided isn't worth mentioning??? Or the public won't question due to lack of education or the habit of believing everything they are told.

A lot of the old names are trying to catch up to the changes in the industry by putting out new formulas that only go half way. They will use the same basic formula and add some fruit, or a vegetable......maybe some oil. Of courst then they charge 5-10 bucks more a bag and it's marginally better. Just my perspective.
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Postby tuesdaysmom » Thu Jul 08, 2004 12:17 pm

I have tried researching different dog foods, but I really don't know much about the chemicals in them. I often get tons of conflicting information. What would be the top three foods if you had a choice? I thought Diamond was highly recommended, and I am willing to switch for something better. Where can I find Canidae or whatever it is called? I haev not seen it in our Petco. Thanks in advance...
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Postby barbponys » Thu Jul 08, 2004 1:15 pm

A lot of the high quality foods can't be found in the big stores, they avoid Petco, Petsmart, coporate type places. They often don't have the interest in the "niche" type foods. I doubt you will ever find them carrying frozen raw diets just cuz of the necessary knowledge to educate and recommend the right stuff. I have had conversations with managers of both stores and their understanding of food is woefully lacking. They can't answer basic questions.

Where you are located will determin what is available to you. Some of the better foods are still not widely available. They are still working on distribution. The best on the market at this point in time is Timberwolf. It has the most meat based protein formulas available. There's not a lot of grain in it and the dogs go crazy for it. It performs extremely well for all kinds of dogs, they have 5 formulas available right now with 2 more in the works.

Quite a few folks on this board use Canidae and like it, I personally am not a fan, it's perfomance record over time isn't all that great. We've had a lot of dogs quite eating it all of the sudden after a year or more of eating it fine. High performance dogs don't maintain well on it and eat a lot.

My list of foods to choose from looks like this:

Timberwolf Organics

Natures Variety Prairie

Wellness

Simply Natural

Evolve

Canidae

Natural Balance

Canine Caviar

They are going to be in the 35-45 dollar price range for a 30# bag. The first two have the best feeding ratio of the lot, and lowest output. I have no idea what's available in your area.........I would imagine Wellness and Natural Balance will be. I believe Petco carries Natural Balance and Wellness is pretty much nation wide. JMO.
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Postby mydogroxy » Thu Jul 08, 2004 2:24 pm

kibbles like canidae, wellness and innova (plus most of the other good foods) are usually found in independent pet stores. if the big pet stores are your only option i would reccommend natural balance (available at petco) or blue (available at petsmart). there are also a lot of websites that carry a huge variety of food, if that's an option. http://www.petfooddirect.com has a lot of good quality food.
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Postby tuesdaysmom » Fri Jul 09, 2004 10:00 am

Thanks so much, I will be checking it out, I actually haven't seen very many small independent pet stores around here, if anyone in the Atlanta area knows of any, let me know!
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Postby barbponys » Fri Jul 09, 2004 12:02 pm

Tuesday,
Here's the retailers listed on the Natures Variety website for Atlanta:

Atlanta
CANINE SHOWCASE, 2036 Manchester t, Atlanta, GA 30324, 404-875-0611
HIGHLAND PET SUPPLY, 1186 N. Highland Ave, Atlanta, GA 30306, 404-892-5900
PARK PET SUPPLY, East Atlanta Village, 491 Flat Shoals Ave, Atlanta, GA 30316, 404-588-0140
PET SUPPLIES PLUS, 1853 Piedmont Ave NE, Atlanta, GA 30324, 404-875-7500
RED BANDANNA PET FOOD, 3524 Northside Parkway NW, Atlanta, GA 30327, 404-231-1333
RED BANDANNA PET FOOD, 3872 Roswell Rd #C1, Atlanta, GA 30342, 404-467-7686
RED BANDANNA PET FOOD, 6649 Roswell Rd, Atlanta, GA 30328, 404-943-9155
UNITY NATURAL FOODS, 2955 Peachtree Rd, Atlanta, GA  30305, 404-261-8776

Timberwolf has not retailers listed for Georgia unfortunately.

Here's what was on the Old Mother Hubbard site under Wellness:


http://www.oldmotherhubbard.com/locator ... d=10&cat=1

It would seem the others aren't that widely distributed but here's where Canidae can be found. Some also carry the Nature's Variety:



Dog Days

3235 Cains Hills Pl

Atlanta

GA

30305

404 266-8668



The Pet Set

2480 Briarcliff Rd

Atlanta

GA

30329

404 633-8755



Our Place Or Yours Pet Services

2905-C North Druid Hills Rd

Atlanta

GA

30329

404 248-1096



Canine Showcase & Wild Bird

1544 Piedmont Ave

Atlanta

GA

30324

404



Highland Pet Supply

1186 N. Highland Ave NE

Atlanta

GA

30306

404 892-5900



Sam & Willy's

3405 North Paulina St

Chicago

IL

60657

773 404 0400



The Fur Side

308 West Ponce De Leon Ave "J"

Decatur

GA

30030

404 687-0660
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Postby abman » Sun Jul 11, 2004 3:17 pm

Nutro max is not too bad if you add things to it but there are better foods out there. The healthiest dogs i have seen were always given extra.
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