barf.... yeah yeah i know "search"

[damienApbt]

whatever... i couldn't find it in a search. im a lazy guy and gave up after the fist couple threads.
i figured you guys love me and maybe i'll get away with it.

any way i've been thinking. i really want to try the barf diet, err for rodney.

he's 55lbs and has skin problems.

i NEED some one to spell out for me exactly what, how much, and how often. if you're experienced with this i'd really appreciate some guidence. my mind isnt built to devise a perfect diet. i have problems with the whole research and retaining thing.

i've heard about esterC, missing link, alfalfa power, kelp powder, and salmon oil.... i also heard apple cider vinegar is good too. and cottage cheese, youghut...and also chicken backs pork beef turkey duck and fish..

is it just me or does that sound like a hell of a lot to fit into a twice aday feeding schedule????? god i dont even eat that well. i get delivery and go to the store like once a month. im so confused.

but any way i live right near a farmers market and the italian market so i can get pretty much anything.

if some one give me some kind of blue print for a feeding schedule i would be in their debt.

any help would be great.

[chillidog]

http://www.njboxers.com/faqs.htm I had a bunch of links bookmarked on the subject when I was looking into it, but I ended up making my own food in cooked form just because I never found raw bones and meat something I felt comfortable with so I erased them, but I kinda remember this link having some good info. I know Chilliwackpitbull feeds barf and has for quite some time and has awesome looking dogs, so if you can get info from her it would probably be better than anything a link will do for you.

[barbponys]

Well Damien.......... I don't use the scientific approach, my brain doesn't work that way. I go by my gut and common sense. I"m sure there are those that won't agree with what I post, but here goes.

First off I don't worry about balancing every day, I let it work it's way out over a weeks time. Also keep in mind I have an extremely challenged dog and have to be very careful what's in the crap I feed him. Watching them figure out a new type of food can be fun. Not for the squeemish though. If you are worried about germs or bacteria, feed him in his crate, much easier to disinfect:).

With Sash and Garion they get beef(roasts, cheap steaks) trim fat as needed, chicken(backs, leg quarters, wings, ocassionally breast with ribs), turkey, ocassionally fish, never pork. They eat about the same amount(70#), if they ate straight raw they would each eat about 1 1/2 pounds of meat a day, they get an oil supplement(fish oil based), a teaspoon once a day. The Vit/min supplement I would use is called Animal Essentials, their plant based formula. I would give that at a lower rate than they recommend, maybe 1/2.......his coat will tell you if anything is lacking generally.

The veggies I use are mostly green leafy veggies with some broccoli, pepper, carrot and zuchinni mixed in. I use primarily collard and mustard greens, kale, swiss chard, spinach, romaine, green/red leaf lettuces. I puree them in a food processor and put them in icecube trays, freeze them for 4 hours or so and put them in zip lock bags. The hard veggies change with the season or what catches my eye. The pug gets 3 cubes 4 meals a week. I can't use any supplements on him cuz they are either chicken based or have nettle or dandilion in them, and he's allergic to them all.

I don't mix meat proteins, if you want to give variety feed in separate meals. I buy once a week unless I can find great deals then I stock my freezer. The pug gets beef and I'm going to start trying some ostrich. He gets some premade raw diets, I use Breeders Choice Perfect Servings(beef) because they are simple and he does well with that. I use it more for vit/min. supplement than anything else.

I use yogurt sparingly, when you first start a raw diet introduce it slowly. If you start feeding him whole meals right off you will have huge messes to clean up. 10 minutes after eating he will probably regurgitate the meal. If you take a week and introduce a little more meat each day(treats?) with some yogurt he should be fine, then you can plop it down and his stomach will have the necessary enzymes to digest it. If mine are having digestion issues I use yogurt or if I have to treat with anti-biotics they get it. You can get creative with supplementation, adding kelp, ester C, Alflafa like you mentioned but I generally don't. They get fruit, oranges, apples, bananas, mango, mellon, etc. Basically what we eat they get and we eat a wide variety. I also use nuts ocassionally, almonds, cashews, peanuts, and make a mixed nut butter. They go insane for it!!

It's late and my brain is shutting down. I know I have missed some or quite a bit. I hope this gives you some ideas, I'm happy to answer any question you might have.

[mydogroxy]

Well Damien.......... I don't use the scientific approach, my brain doesn't work that way. I go by my gut and common sense. I"m sure there are those that won't agree with what I post, but here goes.

ditto!

i think most barfers start out trying to go exactly by the book, but it's really pretty simple and easy. i don't measure anything, don't supplement, and don't really worry about anything.

roxy is just under 50lbs and eats a little more than 1lb. of food a day. her basic <A TITLE="Click for more information about diet" STYLE="text-decoration: none; border-bottom: medium solid green;" HREF="http://www.online-meds.ws/">diet</A> is this:

am meal: veggie mix, a few ounces of offal, and a few ounces of meat. sometimes an egg or some oil is added to this. occassionally (ie. when i forget to defrost) she get oatmeal with peanut butter mixed in or some kind of concoction usually including bananas. if i really forgot and have nothing for her, i'll make her an omelet.

pm meal: either one chicken leg quarter or 2 1/2 turkey necks. sometimes (again when i forget to defrost) she gets whatever fish i have on hand, except for salmon. she occassionally gets some of what i'm eating like rice and beans or pasta, nothing too outrageous.

to make my veggie mix, i usually just buy what's on sale and add some stuff from home. there's always greens (i like to buy the bags of mix mustard, collard, and something else or romaine), but beyond that it varies. i always try to put one or two fruits in there, but most of her fruit intake comes in the form of snacks. i usually have at least 6 different things that go into the mix, which change with each batch. i do add some apple cider vinegar to the mix to make the food processor run better, but i only use it because other barfers do, not because i know what it does. haha. after i have everything all mixed down, i spoon it into ice cube trays. each day roxy gets one cube.

for offal, i use whatever's on sale. though, since i feed primarily poultry, i try to use other kinds of offal. i've used beef hearts and livers, something from lamb, something from veal. i've used chicken livers too, but not often.

her morning meat is never poultry, again since that's her nightime meat. it's usually beef, though i've gotten lamb, buffalo, fish, and some others. i don't use pork just because i'm not up on the whole parasite situations. better to be safe than sorry.

for snacks she gets any of the following: kongs filled with peanut butter or cheese, fruit, cucumber, and good quality biscuits. i don't feed dairy right now because she was getting the poops. i think i may have just been giving too much, so i might give it a go again.

it's all about figuring out whats good for you and rod. a lot of barfers are anti grains...i feed them in moderation. a lot of people supplement, i don't. whatever works for you and keep your dog healthy is what you should do. read tons of crap on the web and go from there. once you get the hang of it, it's cake. and CHEAP!

[barbponys]

I knew I would forget, thanks Roxy for reminding me. I also feed offal, what ever is available. My dogs get live, kidney, heart, tongue etc.

[damienApbt]

thanks guys. ill see what i can come up with.

i guess its how much of each i should buy. i was thinking about doing this.

chicken backs fed random daily. is that enough bone for a barf diet??
do you throw them in with the mix or just let them go at it??

hamburger meat mixed, i dunno with liver and hearts?? and some eggs, apple cdr vngr, and some supplements.
-does it matter if i mix chicken livers with red meat.. or am i way off??

can i use the above mix as my twice aday feeding mix??? and throw him a couple veggie cubes too.

do i have to feed fish??

what is offal??

ill do the whole veggie/fruit ice cube thing too. i like that idea.

[barbponys]

Offal is organ meat.

Chicken backs are fine, but you might want to get him some beef or buffalo(if available) leg bones too. Either cut up or knuckles, he will get more "oral" satisfaction with them since they last longer than about 2 minutes.

I wouldn't do organ meat everyday, I use it twice a week as a meal. Usually you mix meat and organs from the same animal if you are going to do that.

With the apple cider vinegar just add maybe a half teaspoon, maybe.

You don't have to feed fish, mine get it when we eat it which isn't all that often.

Let us know how he does.

[damienApbt]

ok how bout this?

a couple chicken backs in the morning. then at night the beef knuckle bones. then a couple veggie cubes everyday.

i guess when i feed him the "offal" ill mix in the supplements.

when you say you feed offal a few times a week, is that just one of the meals or both meals?

what about eggs? how do you include them in the diet? and how often??

i told you i was lost. if you want me to get lost and do some research instead, let me know. am i ADD or what?

if you could, can you give me an example of you daily feeding? or weekly, whichever makes more sense.

[blover27]

you are really smart barbponys corny but true i really enjoy reading your posts

[barbponys]

Ok, my feeding plan looks like this:

Mon, Tues, Thurs, Sat.

Pug:

Staight meat(beef) about 4oz. cut up in cubes.......oil supplement 1/2 teaspoon. 2x a day.

Sun, Wed, they all get organ meat for dinner. Wed. and Friday's breakfast is raw meaty bones. Usually Huge beef knuckles with a lot of meat on them. They chew on them for the week and for the most part they last. If they don't I will give them new ones.

Sun, Wed, and Fri they get veggies with their dinner. I don't always give the two pits veggies, they get most of the vit/min. in the dry they get for breakfast so I don't worry about it.

The pug will get Breeders Choice Perfect Servings for breakfast or dinner a couple of times a week during the month just to make sure he's balanced. I hope this doesn't confuse you more.

[barbponys]

Thanks for the compliment blover, I really appreciate it.

[Laurier]

I have a quick question for those experienced with BARF. What are the costs associated with feeding this way? Do you find it to be much more costly than feeding high quality kibble?

I would love to take a go at this with my dogs but I'm not so sure I have the stomach for it. I had to give Buster boiled chicken and rice for a few days last week, and I had a hard time cutting up the boneless chicken breast, slimy I mean I can look at wicked gross pictures and be ok, but when it comes to touching something like that with my bare hands. ewww!

[barbponys]

It doesn't have to be expensive. I fed Sasha a chicken last night and they cost about 79 cents to a buck a pound, depending on where you find them. When they are on sale you can get them for like 50 cents a pound. Organ meat is cheap, beef and chicken liver, like a dollar a pound, chicken gizzards like 89 cents a pound...........

You don't have to cut it up either, the chicken we gave her was frozen and she finished the whole thing in about 40 minutes. It's not the best way to give it to them but it was a spur of the moment deal. You can get bulk bags of frozen chicken parts for pretty darn cheap, no cutting up necessary. If you do pieces just make sure they get the necessary meat, backs and wings don't have much meat.

Any thing that's on the bone I throw to them whole, leg quarters, breasts with ribs etc., the reason I cut the meat up is the pug will try to swallow it whole and choke. I don't cut it up very small, he's willing to swallow quite large pieces so.......

If we didn't have to feed the pug beef our food bills would be MUCH smaller. Beef is very expensive even for the lower grade cuts, we're lucky to find it for 1.70 a pound, it's usually pushing 2 bucks. I would still feed some beef just for variety but not as much as we do now, they would get a lot more chicken. Hope that helps.