OFFICIAL ear cropping/tail docking debate thread

Talk about diets, exercise, and disease.

Postby Leslie H » Wed Sep 08, 2004 6:31 am

Sorry, I'll rephrase, Xanny's breeder had a vet (actually I believe 2 vets) do her ears.
As to puppy deaths, all anaesthesia related I believe. Yes, they could have done a test prior, and should have, but.
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Postby Kelliek » Wed Sep 08, 2004 6:51 am

i really prefer dogs with natural ears and i do think that the public in general perceives cropped bullies as being more threatening.

i LOVE cody's ears - they are so soft and one of my favorite parts of his body. i feel that a dog's ears can be very expressive - cody has at least 20 different expressions he can do, just depending on the set of his ears. and call me weird but some of my favorite bullies have the strangest ears - one floppy, one up, and my very fave are the bat earred bullies - i just love those ears!

i think cropping is for the owner, not the dog and that they should be left natural.

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Postby mnp13 » Wed Sep 08, 2004 7:20 am

Leslie H wrote:Sorry, I'll rephrase, Xanny's breeder had a vet (actually I believe 2 vets) do her ears.
As to puppy deaths, all anaesthesia related I believe. Yes, they could have done a test prior, and should have, but.


Thanks for clearing that up.

As for death realted to anastetic, I don't think that is not a death from ear cropping, that is a death from anastetic. If the pup died while getting spayed would you atribute that death to the spay or the anastetic? To me, for a dog to die 'from ear cropping', it would have to be something at least related - like infection, problems with the ears, etc.

Surgery has inherent risks, that's true, and an unnessary surgery (like a non-medical crop or dock) could be deadly. HOWEVER, if a dog was getting spayed and cropped at the same time and died due to a problem with anestetic what procedure would you 'blame' for the death?

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Postby mydogroxy » Wed Sep 08, 2004 10:04 am

Yes.....yes it is...completely unnecessary....so unecessary that there are not millions of homeless dogs....there are no overfilled shelters....there are no rescues begging for donations and just a couple more foster homes or adopted..
oh wait, YES there are

when i say unnecessary, i mean that it is not essential to do for a dog to live (as oposed to say a life or death operation). i am well aware of the millions of pits in shelters, that wasn't the point of my analogy.
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Postby nessa » Wed Sep 08, 2004 12:40 pm

I'm a huge fan of floppy silky ears and long whippy tails. I *personally* would never surgically alter any dog for cosmetic reasons, regardless of breed. The only non-essential surgery Kirby will have is neutering.
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Postby pitbullforever » Wed Sep 08, 2004 1:06 pm

i'm don't agree with cuting anything off of a dog for looks and looks alone. i wouldn't like it if someone cut off anything of mine for looks. i think that ear croping makes a dog look mean to uneductaed ppl. thats just my opionion anyway :)
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cropped ears

Postby obscenities_pit » Wed Sep 08, 2004 2:36 pm

i didn't get my dogs cropped but personally like the look, i love my dogs ears but think bliss would look good with hers done. girlfriend and i were both kinda iffy, and just never got it done.

as far as hurting the dogs, making them head shy, or emotionally scarring; i don't know but think it doesn't.

i had a certain part of my anotomy go through a seamingly useless cosmetic surgery when i was younger (circumsism) and am neither scarred or "head shy" :))
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Postby blover27 » Wed Sep 08, 2004 2:47 pm

i had a certain part of my anatomy go through a seemingly useless cosmetic surgery when i was younger (circumcise) and am neither scarred or "head shy"

i am neither pro nor con on the cropping...i believe its the owners right to make that decision as i have always used the circumcision argument too...but if dam that aint the funniest way to prove your point i have ever seen
roflmao
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Postby STITCH » Wed Sep 08, 2004 2:55 pm

pitbullforever wrote:i'm don't agree with cuting anything off of a dog for looks and looks alone. i wouldn't like it if someone cut off anything of mine for looks. i think that ear croping makes a dog look mean to uneductaed ppl. thats just my opionion anyway :)


most guys have been throught exactly what your talking about. :bully:
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Postby JCleve86 » Wed Sep 08, 2004 6:03 pm

Really, in the grand scheme of things, cropping and docking are not big issues. I prefer natural ears, but cropping does accent the facial features of correct pit bulls, so I can see the reasoning for a show crop. As for docking, both of my Boxer-boos have docked tails, and thank the Lord that they do. Sometimes they wiggle so hard that it hurts...I can't imagine a whipping tail at the end of those wiggles! At first we were iffy about it...we considered keeping their tails...but now I'm glad we didn't. Guests have a hard enough time escaping the wiggle attacks as they are. Yeah, it was done basically for cosmetic reasons, but there are bigger battles out there to wage.

Originally there actually was a purpose to docking and cropping: guard dogs had their ears and tails cropped and docked, respectively, so that intruders wouldn't have anything to grab onto to control the dog, especially not the ears, which are very sensitive (as I'm sure we all know). I guess it just stuck. Now, we get rid of tails to protect intruders...I mean guests.

And lets not compare cropping to circumcision guys! Come on...its just not necessary! I don't need the visual...not that I'm thinking about it...ummm... :oops:
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Postby pitbullforever » Wed Sep 08, 2004 6:10 pm

STITCH wrote:
pitbullforever wrote:i'm don't agree with cuting anything off of a dog for looks and looks alone. i wouldn't like it if someone cut off anything of mine for looks. i think that ear croping makes a dog look mean to uneductaed ppl. thats just my opionion anyway :)


most guys have been throught exactly what your talking about. :bully:

hehehe thats funny i didn't even think about that until u wrote it. hehehehe. :nana:
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Postby jmann4 » Wed Sep 08, 2004 6:52 pm

My thing with the cropping issue is, if it's done safely, what's the big deal? I mean really. It does not hurt the dog long term, endanger the dog, or effect the dog in a way that matters (temperment).

So what's the big deal? If you prefer natural ears (which I do by the way though both my dogs are cropped), then fine, prefer them, but that doesn't give you or anyone the right to tell someone they are immoral or mean because they prefer a cropped look.

As for docking, APBT's don't get their tails docked so it's not an issue for me. I dont have anything against that either, if it's done correctly.

As long as it's done correctly this shouldn't be an issue. Everday my breed is being banned around the world. I could really give two shakes about ear cropping and tail docking. More important and critical things to worry about.
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Postby blover27 » Wed Sep 08, 2004 6:56 pm

As long as it's done correctly this shouldn't be an issue. Everday my breed is being banned around the world. I could really give two shakes about ear cropping and tail docking. More important and critical things to worry about.

awesome :thumbsup:
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Postby Leslie H » Wed Sep 08, 2004 9:17 pm

When I was relatively new to the breed, I was at a show where a breeder had brought a litter of pups, 8 weeks old or so. The show quality pups had been cropped, their pet quality littermates had not. The uncropped pups were bouncing and playing, typical pups. The cropped pups (these were recent crops), were sitting quietly and sadly, their heads dropping, looking pretty sad and pathetic. That's what caused me to form my anti-cropping opinion. I'm not demanding others adhere to it.
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Postby JaquelineC » Fri Sep 10, 2004 10:57 am

jmann4 wrote:My thing with the cropping issue is, if it's done safely, what's the big deal? I mean really. It does not hurt the dog long term, endanger the dog, or effect the dog in a way that matters (temperment).

So what's the big deal? If you prefer natural ears (which I do by the way though both my dogs are cropped), then fine, prefer them, but that doesn't give you or anyone the right to tell someone they are immoral or mean because they prefer a cropped look.

As for docking, APBT's don't get their tails docked so it's not an issue for me. I dont have anything against that either, if it's done correctly.

As long as it's done correctly this shouldn't be an issue. Everday my breed is being banned around the world. I could really give two shakes about ear cropping and tail docking. More important and critical things to worry about.


Excellent post, Jmann!

If you don't believe in something - Fine! Don't! But don't force your beliefs onto me or decide I'm a 'bad person' because I don't feel the same way you do!
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